Is "ich eradication" really possible?

[Ligeia]

Hi All!

I have been having an internal philosophical debate this AM and wanted to share it.

That is on the topic of ich eradication in a reef tank. I am not looking to start an argument about management vs eradication, rather is TOTAL eradication a possibility or not. As in is there any way to prove an ich free tank absolutely 100 percent doesn't have a cyst somewhere in it that is adapting and changing.

I guess I think about it like this. Ich is a natural parasitic part of a marine ecosystem and therefore will thrive and succeed no matter how much we control it, (I rewatched the original Jurassic Park recently and the Dr. Malcon quote "Life finds a way" got me thinking about ich lol.) That is we can try everything we can to isolate, destroy, and annihilate ich, but ultimately as ich is part of a marine environment, it WILL find a way to eventually get into your tank and will adapt in order to do so.

I think about mosquitoes as well, as in recent years certain insecticides are less effective against them, the malaria they carry can adapt and change to better resist the drugs we employ against it. Their drive to succeed and reproduce has put them into a genetic arms race with us. They are literally adapting before our eyes with each generation to find a way to survive.

In a nutshell, if everything about a reef tank is artificial and we are trying to control and eradicate certain marine parasites in our artificial, sterile environment, how can we know we are being 100 percent successful in doing so. It seems a little naive to think we can totally control something that has been established for millions of years.

Anyway, just something I was thinking about today, Peace!

 

[JumboShrimp]

If you put nothing but seawater (that you drove and got yourself) directly from the ocean into your tank, and nothing but fish (that you drove and got yourself) directly from the ocean, could you guarantee a tank with no I suppose the first drop of ‘ich’ water or first ‘ichy’ fish, and the the answer would immediately change to “no.” Just my 2-cents. Peace.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi All!

I have been having an internal philosophical debate this AM and wanted to share it.

That is on the topic of ich eradication in a reef tank. I am not looking to start an argument about management vs eradication, rather is TOTAL eradication a possibility or not. As in is there any way to prove an ich free tank absolutely 100 percent doesn't have a cyst somewhere in it that is adapting and changing.

I guess I think about it like this. Ich is a natural parasitic part of a marine ecosystem and therefore will thrive and succeed no matter how much we control it, (I rewatched the original Jurassic Park recently and the Dr. Malcon quote "Life finds a way" got me thinking about ich lol.) That is we can try everything we can to isolate, destroy, and annihilate ich, but ultimately as ich is part of a marine environment, it WILL find a way to eventually get into your tank and will adapt in order to do so.

I think about mosquitoes as well, as in recent years certain insecticides are less effective against them, the malaria they carry can adapt and change to better resist the drugs we employ against it. Their drive to succeed and reproduce has put them into a genetic arms race with us. They are literally adapting before our eyes with each generation to find a way to survive.

In a nutshell, if everything about a reef tank is artificial and we are trying to control and eradicate certain marine parasites in our artificial, sterile environment, how can we know we are being 100 percent successful in doing so. It seems a little naive to think we can totally control something that has been established for millions of years.

Anyway, just something I was thinking about today, Peace!

No - I don't think there is a way to "prove" that once cryptocaryon is 'in a tank' that it's eradicated. (reasons - CI can stay dormant in low O2 environments for some time, there is at least some evidence that fish can act as carriers of CI even though they aren't 'infecte'd and lastly, though we think we know everything about the lifecycle - CI velvet, etc are constantly evolving).

But there are ways to nearly ensure that there is no CI in a tank. (QT, fallow periods, etc)

Secondly - attempting to remove 1 parasite does not make a tank sterile. There are still billions of protozoans, viruses, bacteria and fungi in every tank.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I'll say yes. Ich is just like any other organism. You remove its food supply and it'll die out. As long as you properly treat anything going into the tank, while its alot of work, 100% ich free is entirely possible in my opinion.

 

[MnFish1]

I'll say yes. Ich is just like any other organism. You remove its food supply and it'll die out. As long as you properly treat anything going into the tank, while its alot of work, 100% ich free is entirely possible in my opinion.

I agree with this - but - the question was 'can you prove it'. Thats the hangup for me.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I agree with this - but - the question was 'can you prove it'. Thats the hangup for me.

I can understand that. There really isnt a way to full proof prove that it's gone. All you can do is hope for the best

 

[DoctaReef]

I agree with this - but - the question was 'can you prove it'. Thats the hangup for me.

Im doing a Molly Test on my tank at the moment... might be as close to proof as we can get without DNA analysis.

 

[Ligeia]

I'll say yes. Ich is just like any other organism. You remove its food supply and it'll die out. As long as you properly treat anything going into the tank, while its alot of work, 100% ich free is entirely possible in my opinion.

This is true! I think you CAN eradicate it at least for a while. My question, though was more along the lines of do you think the parasite (just like any parasite) can and will adapt to find a way into our tank no matter what. Like a new strain evolves that is extremely copper resistant and despite our best efforts finds a way to establish itself.

 

[Ligeia]

No - I don't think there is a way to "prove" that once cryptocaryon is 'in a tank' that it's eradicated. (reasons - CI can stay dormant in low O2 environments for some time, there is at least some evidence that fish can act as carriers of CI even though they aren't 'infecte'd and lastly, though we think we know everything about the lifecycle - CI velvet, etc are constantly evolving).

But there are ways to nearly ensure that there is no CI in a tank. (QT, fallow periods, etc)

Secondly - attempting to remove 1 parasite does not make a tank sterile. There are still billions of protozoans, viruses, bacteria and fungi in every tank.

I like this philosophy! I guess I just get sort of like bugged by people who say “my tank is 100 percent parasite free” like parasites are so successful because they are extremely adaptable.

 

[2Sunny]

Not sure I would use the word "eradicate" in describing my tank, but I haven't had Ich on any fish in my reef since 1999 when I setup my first 50 gallon Tenecor tank. Does 20 years Ich-free mean I "eradicated" Ich or is it there but under control because of good biology? Can't say. What I can say is that with a healthy aquarium and good nutrition you can make Ich a non-issue. I have had the Hippo tang for 4 years now. Usually they are Ich magnets and turn pale, but this guys is as healthy as they come

 

[flsalty]

Shrodinger's ich. If you can't see it, it's not there.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I would like to think that ich is eradicated in my system after doing a 76 day fallow period and running all fish through 30 days of 2.0 copper power and prazi. Please dont tell me different! ;Hilarious;Hilarious

 

[MnFish1]

I would like to think that ich is eradicated in my system after doing a 76 day fallow period and running all fish through 30 days of 2.0 copper power and prazi. Please dont tell me different! ;Hilarious;Hilarious

I would like to think so too. But...

 

[Ligeia]

Shrodinger's ich. If you can't see it, it's not there.

The ich is present and not present at the same time

 

[Ligeia]

I would like to think that ich is eradicated in my system after doing a 76 day fallow period and running all fish through 30 days of 2.0 copper power and prazi. Please dont tell me different! ;Hilarious;Hilarious

Don't be deceived crabs. It's all just a placebo effect!

 

[Miami Reef]

Bump!

 

[Miami Reef]

I think it’s definitely possible, but is the juice worth the squeeze?

I understand with velvet and brook as they are not as common and very deadly, but ich seems to be present in many many tanks, and there are countless of posts of people who tried eradicating it but it came back.

Most people will say that no treatment is 100% effective, and that’s why I think that the idea that ich can be guaranteed eradicated is a false narrative. Ich can definitely make it through corals even when quarantining them. It’s about effort and luck IMO.

 

[HuduVudu]

Hi All!

I have been having an internal philosophical debate this AM and wanted to share it.

That is on the topic of ich eradication in a reef tank. I am not looking to start an argument about management vs eradication, rather is TOTAL eradication a possibility or not. As in is there any way to prove an ich free tank absolutely 100 percent doesn't have a cyst somewhere in it that is adapting and changing.

I guess I think about it like this. Ich is a natural parasitic part of a marine ecosystem and therefore will thrive and succeed no matter how much we control it, (I rewatched the original Jurassic Park recently and the Dr. Malcon quote "Life finds a way" got me thinking about ich lol.) That is we can try everything we can to isolate, destroy, and annihilate ich, but ultimately as ich is part of a marine environment, it WILL find a way to eventually get into your tank and will adapt in order to do so.

I think about mosquitoes as well, as in recent years certain insecticides are less effective against them, the malaria they carry can adapt and change to better resist the drugs we employ against it. Their drive to succeed and reproduce has put them into a genetic arms race with us. They are literally adapting before our eyes with each generation to find a way to survive.

In a nutshell, if everything about a reef tank is artificial and we are trying to control and eradicate certain marine parasites in our artificial, sterile environment, how can we know we are being 100 percent successful in doing so. It seems a little naive to think we can totally control something that has been established for millions of years.

Anyway, just something I was thinking about today, Peace!

Short answer no.

Act accordingly.

EDIT:

 

[Enderg60]

Of course its possible. Its just not east. Its also REALLY HARD to maintain it if you are adding stuff regularly.

Its kinda of like the question "Can you skydive without a parachute?" Sure you can, but only once.