Is it Ich, or am I overreacting?

kyley · Jan 11, 2020

Hi All,
I've had the worst luck lately with fish, and now I'm worried I have Ich in my display! But I can't imagine how!

I haven't added a new fish in over 5 months and this is the first visible sign of Ich that I've seen. I have 4 fish in my 120g tank, sourced as follows:
1. Yellow Tang - from my old 65 gallon and I've had it about 9 years.
2. Hippo Tang - acquired from a hobbyist who had the fish for years and claimed no Ich issues (which I realize is no guarantee).
3. Sailfin Tang - same source as the Hippo Tang. All 3 tangs were added to this 120g tank in April (so at least 8 months).
4. Black Leopard Wrasse - acquired from a different hobbyist (who also claimed no sick fish) in early August and added to the tank then.

So, the tangs have been in this tank for over 8 months and all 4 have been in there for over 5 months, and yesterday I see these two spots on my Sailfin (and one on the other side of his body) and it looked like a spot on the Hippo Tang. The Sailfin acts fine (no flashing), but the Hippo is flashing a lot yesterday and today. Do you think this is the dreaded Ich? In the first picture, you can see the top spot protruding quite a bit (2nd pic was taken with an orange filter, hence the color difference):

The spots were protruding yesterday, but one is gone now on the Sailfin, one is smaller, and the one on the Hippo looks the same. Am I screwed and need to go fishless for 76 days? The yellow tang and leopard wrasse are showing no symptoms.

I have 6 (much smaller) fish in my quarantine tank under observation that I was planning on adding to the display any day now (3 had been in my 65g for 8+ years and 3 are new fish that just went through TTM). I could put them in my 65 gallon reef (that I planned on shutting down soon). Then my hospital tank would be open, but it's just 29 gallons with 2 sponge filters. Think that will be okay for these 4 fish?

And, fearing the worst, should I treat with hyposalinity? I'd rather not use copper or chloroquine phosphate if hypo would be effective and less stressful on the fish? Also, with a leopard wrasse, I will have to keep sand in there, and that would absorb meds, right? Not looking forward to this! :-( Thanks,
--Kyle

zalick · Jan 11, 2020

I'm no ich expert by any means but it looks like ich.

I QT for observation but don't do TTM. Don't do copper and don't do hypo.

My clown and my magnificent Foxface each have shown a couple spots like you pic (not at the same time) and it went away. I assume it was ich. I assume my tank has ich. I assume if everything stays stable and the fish don't get stressed that the ich will stay at Bay.

I don't think I could guarantee an ich free tank without a complete tear down. Even then no guarantee.

I tell the story because I would not do anything if I were you, unless it appears to get worse.

Some people believe that most tanks have ich and it rarely causes issues. I'm in that camp.

Wolf89 · Jan 11, 2020

I feel you're overreacting. Yes theres ich. I wouldn't worry at all. 99% of the time ich doesn't kill. If you feed your fish good food and have good water you'll be fine

Big G · Jan 11, 2020

kyley said:
In the first picture, you can see the top spot protruding quite a bit

The "protruding" makes me think it's lympho. It is a contagious virus. Are the spots cottony/fibrous looking?

theMeat · Jan 11, 2020

Agreed. Keep things stable and stress free. The better and fresher the diet the better your fish will be. And a uv will help.

zalick · Jan 11, 2020

theMeat said:
Agreed. Keep things stable and stress free. The better and fresher the diet the better your fish will be. And a uv will help.

Agreed.

I'm a big fan of running a properly sized uv.

theMeat · Jan 11, 2020

zalick said:
Agreed.

I'm a big fan of running a properly sized uv.

Oh yeah good course of action. Not only for ich suppression. Mine is under sized some and still see a difference if I let the bulb go too long before changing. Buying new bulb every 10-11 months is the best $10 a year I spend on tank

zalick · Jan 11, 2020

theMeat said:
Oh yeah good course of action. Not only for ich suppression. Mine is under sized some and still see a difference if I let the bulb go too long before changing. Buying new bulb every 10-11 months is the best $10 a year I spend on tank

Yup. I'm I little lazy, so I do it every 12 months. December is my annual cleaning and changing the bulbs. Just did the bulbs today.

kyley · Jan 11, 2020

zalick said:
Agreed.

I'm a big fan of running a properly sized uv.

Thanks all. I actually do have a UV Sterilizer (Aqua Ultraviolet - 25 Watt IIRC), but I'm not sure I have the proper flow through it.
*And I'm probably due for replacing the bulb.

The issue is, this is a big decision point. I could either remove and go fish less to get rid of Ich in the tank and treat the fish to get rid of it on them. That's not an attractive option, but maybe it's the right one?

Or, I can leave them AND add these other 6 fish as planned, but then I'm creating some stress and exposing them to Ich. If it were to get bad then, at that point it would be hard to remove, and treat, that many fish because they definitely couldn't all go in my 29g quarantine tank...

Thoughts? If I do leave them / add the new fish, any suggestions other than garlic and the UV? Thanks,
--Kyle

theMeat · Jan 11, 2020

Not going to tell you no, don’t do it, and have you loose your fish.
Can tell you when I used to react and Battle had nothing but problems. Have been doing less and doing better as a result

zalick · Jan 11, 2020

The one option I probably would not do is add the new fish, with visible ich on your dt fish.

If it were my tank, I would wait till the spots are gone, and then wait another week or so, then add the new fish.

Us the aqua UV flow chart to determine what flow to use. I use the slowest flow to achieve the highest "kill rate"

theMeat · Jan 11, 2020

zalick said:
The one option I probably would not do is add the new fish, with visible ich on your dt fish.

If it were my tank, I would wait till the spots are gone, and then wait another week or so, then add the new fish.

Us the aqua UV flow chart to determine what flow to use. I use the slowest flow to achieve the highest "kill rate"

Definitely look at flow but ich has a lifecycle that we can only see as dots/evidence on the fish, during one short part of that cycle. It will come in waves, especially at first . If each wave gets worse and it starts to really effect health then maybe time to do something.
fwiw, if no coral lowering salt will help

kyley · Jan 11, 2020

theMeat said:
Not going to tell you no, don’t do it, and have you loose your fish.
Can tell you when I used to react and Battle had nothing but problems. Have been doing less and doing better as a result

Yeah, I know it's very difficult and risky to treat things like this. I had a rough go with my most recent round of tank transfer method with two fish having different ailments.

zalick said:
The one option I probably would not do is add the new fish, with visible ich on your dt fish.

If it were my tank, I would wait till the spots are gone, and then wait another week or so, then add the new fish.

Us the aqua UV flow chart to determine what flow to use. I use the slowest flow to achieve the highest "kill rate"

If Ich is in the tank, it won't matter whether it's visible or not, that much I know. :-(

theMeat said:
Definitely look at flow but ich has a lifecycle that we can only see as dots/evidence on the fish, during one short part of that cycle. It will come in waves, especially at first . If each wave gets worse and it starts to really effect health then maybe time to do something.
fwiw, if no coral lowering salt will help

Agreed on the first part.
I've been doing this for 10 years and transferred a lot of coral from my old tank (and got new coral), so the tank is pretty loaded with coral.

@Humblefish , I'm curious to hear your input as well. You know I've recently battled a number of different issues (with that Exquisite Wrasse and Pink Spotted Watchman Goby). This is a decision point on Ich eradication vs Ich management (I read through your post about that)... :-/ I haven't been perfect, but I have tried to do things the right way for the most part, but I still got Ich. My guess would be that one or more of the fish I got must have had Ich but never showed symptoms until now. Either that or Ich in some life stage was on a piece of coral (or inverts like snails) that I added to my tank? But if that's the case, it makes the case for Ich management stronger because Ich could arrive anytime from a coral!? :-(

Then again, if I add the 6 fish that are ready to go in, and then I have 10 fish with more serious Ich infestations, it's going to be a lot of sad losses and/or even more challenging to treat them. Sometimes this hobby sucks. Thanks,
--Kyle

kyley · Jan 13, 2020

Big G said:
The "protruding" makes me think it's lympho. It is a contagious virus. Are the spots cottony/fibrous looking?

I forgot to respond to this. While I wish / had hoped it was lympho, I don't think it is for the following reasons. None of which I'm sure are correct, but I'd like to see some confirmation?
1. The spots disappeared fairly quickly, like Ich will do. From what I understand, Lympho won't be present a few days and then gone, is that right?
2. The hippo tang was flashing (only for a couple of days). I don't think Lympho will cause that symptom? Also, is flashing generally just a symptom of Ich, or similar parasites (Velvet, etc.)?
3. It was on the body only, not fins (I realize lympho can be on the body, but wouldn't it most likely be on the fins as well?). And I don't think it looked "cottony/fibrous."

I think my UV sterilizer is running around 400-500 GPH. I think that is the most effective range, according to this, for Ich (it's a 25 Watt Aqua UV Classic)? However, my bulb is probably due to be replaced (don't know for sure since I bought it used). Should I replace it, add my new fish, and hope it keeps Ich at bay (along with good nutrition)?

Or I can remove the fish and go fishless to truly eradicate Ich...

I'm still struggling with this decision. I don't like either idea, and I'm not sure I have the time to transfer and properly quarantine that many fish - and keep the QT water parameters correct - and keep Copper in the proper ranges (doesn't sound like hypo is the most foolproof method and some of my fish won't tolerate CP)... But on the other hand, a bad outbreak that kills my fish would be even worse... Thanks,
--Kyle

zalick · Jan 13, 2020

If I were you, I'd change the bulb, and add the fish. But have 5 gallon buckets ready just in case things go south.

zalick · Jan 13, 2020

Like I mentioned earlier, I'd make sure nothing is visible. That way you know your current fish immune system is back up to full readiness.

It's all a calculated gamble of course. Sorry you are in that tough spot. I don't envy the decision.