Is it time for me to start dosing trace elements?

[JosephM]

I have a ~35 gal system. It’s been up and running for about 3 months and I haven’t done a water change since it was cycled. I dose ESV b-ionic but lately my corals don’t seem as happy. My mushrooms aren’t as big, my alve isn’t coming out much at all, zoas aren’t producing as many polyps as quick, favia don’t have their feeder tentacles out as regularly. I just ordered 2 ICP tests today. Should I wait until I get the ICP test in and sent and get my results before I do anything. Or should I start dosing something like Red Sea ABCD according to calcium uptake?

 

[Spare time]

You could wait for the icp to see what is used but it's up to you. How do you currently remove nitrate and phosphate from the tank?

What all do you currently test for?

 

[JosephM]

You could wait for the icp to see what is used but it's up to you. How do you currently remove nitrate and phosphate from the tank?

What all do you currently test for?

Filter socks, properly sized skimmer, 40lbs of live rock, and chaeto.

 

[Pistondog]

Do a water change. I think 3 mos is too young to go without.
What are water parameters

 

[JosephM]

Do a water change. I think 3 mos is too young to go without.

Nooooo. I really don’t want to. Like i can’t explain my repulsion towards water changes. I’d have to mess with the water mix to lower alk and match salinity. I’d honestly be scared I’d do more harm then good

 

[Pistondog]

Nooooo. I really don’t want to. Like i can’t explain my repulsion towards water changes. I’d have to mess with the water mix to lower alk and match salinity. I’d honestly be scared I’d do more harm then good

What are your water parameters
Nitrate
Phosphate
Ph
Salinity
Calcium
Alk

Are you saying water changes are difficult for you?
If the alk mix too high in your salt mix change salt.
Matching salinity just requires a salinity tester.

 

[JosephM]

Nitrate - 25ppm
Phosphate - 0.1ppm
Ph - 8.2
Salinity - 1.0264
Calcium - 455
Alk - 9.2

They’re not too difficult just a waste IMO. What’s the difference between $60 on new salt and $60 purchasing a ICP test and the stuff to dose. What’s the difference between a guy who has a 1yr old tank that he started with dry rock and took months to gain stability and get out of the ugly phase and me who started with live rock straight from the ocean and got a one week cycle with close to zero ugly phase

 

[Pistondog]

We can't test everything. Icp only tests elements present, not biodiversity for lack of a better term.
Many think trying corals on a tank 3 months old will not be successful.
Sounds like you have the right start with live rock, but it still takes time.

 

[JosephM]

We can't test everything. Icp only tests elements present, not biodiversity for lack of a better term.
Many think trying corals on a tank 3 months old will not be successful.
Sounds like you have the right start with live rock, but it still takes time.

Oh yeah. Completely agree with that one. When I first started I always heard patience but of course I wasn’t patient. If I had to redo it I would have definitely not added as many corals. But I’ve been lucky so far and the only thing I’ve lost was a head of a torch due to my error of blasting it too much.

Water change is off the table though unless it’s an emergency and I need to (I do always have pre-mixed water ready, I’m not that much of a DA). Just wanting to know if I should start dosing trace now or once ICP results come back

 

[Pistondog]

Oh yeah. Completely agree with that one. When I first started I always heard patience but of course I wasn’t patient. If I had to redo it I would have definitely not added as many corals. But I’ve been lucky so far and the only thing I’ve lost was a head of a torch due to my error of blasting it too much.

Water change is off the table though unless it’s an emergency and I need to (I do always have pre-mixed water ready, I’m not that much of a DA). Just wanting to know if I should start dosing trace now or once ICP results come back

Wait for icp test, share the results here.

 

[JosephM]

Wait for icp test, share the results here.

Sounds good. Hopefully it’s not too long. I’ve heard some people it takes months to get results

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Do a water change. I think 3 mos is too young to go without.
What are water parameters

Hi,

I agree with this right here.

You are dosing Esv which is a great product, but which? B ionic is designed as a 2 part alk and calc , there is also the mag and trace. I would also ask if you have run your own numbers. I think an icp right now may not really be needed when a home test could accomplish the same thing.

Just some thoughts.

 

[JosephM]

Hi,

I agree with this right here.

You are dosing Esv which is a great product, but which? B ionic is designed as a 2 part alk and calc , there is also the mag and trace. I would also ask if you have run your own numbers. I think an icp right now may not really be needed when a home test could accomplish the same thing.

Just some thoughts.

ESV b-ionic as stated in my original post. What do you mean by run my own numbers? I use salifert for mag and nitrate, Red Sea for calc, Hanna for P04 and alk, and TM floating hydrometer for salinity. If that’s what you’re talking about. From my understanding there’s no hobby grade tests that are accurate for things like iron, strontonium, iodine/iodide that are necessary for a healthy reef

 

[Spare time]

Filter socks, properly sized skimmer, 40lbs of live rock, and chaeto.

Hows the chaeto doing?

Also, do you test magnesium?


I do not do water changes and currently dose diy all for reef but previously did chaetogro (I only do that once a week now so a 7th the dose before all for reef), and red sea potassium and iodine (I tested these with salifert kits which do well). This worked well for me and I liked it since I am typically picky with trace elements. ESV makes a trace mix but just with a few elements. You could try that.

 

[JosephM]

Hows the chaeto doing?

Also, do you test magnesium?


I do not water changes and currently dose diy all for reef but previously did chaetogro (I only do that once a week now so a 7th the dose before all for reef), and red sea potassium and iodine (I tested these with salifert kits which do well). This worked well for me and I liked it since I am typically picky with trace elements. ESV makes a trace mix but just with a few elements. You could try that.

Chaeto is doing great currently. When I first started it was insane and I was having to dose N03 and P04 but didn’t keep up and they bottomed out and I got Dinos and chaeto died. Picked up some chaeto from a friend and been slowly working up the photoperiod until I see N03 start dropping again. I prefer ~10ppm nitrates. I do test magnesium. It’s at 1550. It was 1860 when I first started and has slowly dropped with no water changes

 

[Spare time]

Chaeto is doing great currently. When I first started it was insane and I was having to dose N03 and P04 but didn’t keep up and they bottomed out and I got Dinos and chaeto died. Picked up some chaeto from a friend and been slowly working up the photoperiod until I see N03 start dropping again. I prefer ~10ppm nitrates. I do test magnesium. It’s at 1550. It was 1860 when I first started and has slowly dropped with no water changes

Well I think that if you wanted, you could try one of the methods I used or the esv. Plenty of brands have their own mixes. Fauna marin looks decent as they actually tell you what they say uses different elements and what doesn't (though I can't say where they got their info from). Red seas is easy but bottle D is not needed unless you grow tunicates (they use vanadium)

 

[JosephM]

Well I think that if you wanted, you could try one of the methods I used or the esv. Plenty of brands have their own mixes. Fauna marin looks decent as they actually tell you what they say uses different elements and what doesn't (though I can't say where they got their info from). Red seas is easy but bottle D is not needed unless you grow tunicates (they use vanadium)

Your method does sound nice plus its working for you so hopefully it would work for me. Do you think I should start dosing that stuff now or after ICP test? I don’t grow tunicates but I do have one large one and a bunch of smaller ones that came on the rock

 

[Mastiffsrule]

That was what i was referring to. Sounds like you are on top of the main ones, Alk, Calc, Mag, Po4, and No3.

The icp will tell you if you are deficient in a certain area. It will not help you set a dosing schedule unless you run multiple tests over time to calculate useage. It will help you identify thing you need if you don’t want to do water changes.

 

[josephxsxn]

Water changes are easy mode, I'd recommend trying to solve for making your changes simpler so your willing to do them more often. The attached photo is a 3+ year old 40gal frag tank I have, don't test this tank EVER but give it a 50% water change weekly like religion. Recently had my RBTA split and the few acros recently added are growing and coloring well.

Best of luck to you. I did the no water change thing back when I started years ago, after about 6 months things went south with lots of losses. Water changes for life now, easy street.

 

[Acros]

Off topic: How long does it take to see a change in nitrates and phosphate after adding chaeto? I added some form Nemo’s last week. I see bubbles coming off them during the photoperiod.