Is it worth carbon dosing while also supplementing Nitrate and Phos?

[static416]

My overall system is 340gal and pretty heavily stocked, however I consistently dose Brightwell's 5X Nitrate and Phosphate to keep those from bottoming out entirely.

Is there an upside to notching up my Nitrate+Phosphate dosing slightly, and then dosing carbon at the same time?

Are there additional benefits to carbon dosing beyond just reducing nitrates and phos?

 

[Spare time]

Not really, you would basically just be wasting money

 

[IntrinsicReef]

My overall system is 340gal and pretty heavily stocked, however I consistently dose Brightwell's 5X Nitrate and Phosphate to keep those from bottoming out entirely.

Is there an upside to notching up my Nitrate+Phosphate dosing slightly, and then dosing carbon at the same time?

Are there additional benefits to carbon dosing beyond just reducing nitrates and phos?

When I carbon dose I observe much more polyp extension. I believe this is due to the coral consuming the extra bacteria. I bump up feedings ( auto feeder 3x a day + hand feeding) when carbon dosing to keep Nitrate and phosphate from bottoming out. I also feed Reef roids 2-3x a week to keep phosphate from bottoming out. With carbon dosing and heavy feeding you get what people refer to as "heavy in and heavy out". Also the waste first produced is ammonia, which coral and zooxanthellae prefer to Nitrate. You can dose liquid nutrients and be successful, but I prefer to feed.

 

[static416]

You can dose liquid nutrients and be successful, but I prefer to feed.

I frozen 2-3 times a day, two nori sheets per day, Avast plankton 10 times a day (once an hour for the Anthias), half clam every other day.

Reef Nutrition ROE and Arcti-Pods a few times a week when I remember.

Then feed the predators 5-10 live baby guppies twice a week, and carnivoe mix for the eel twice a week.

Also Reef Energy AB+ 30ml a day.

what people refer to as "heavy in and heavy out"

So yeah, heavy in and out.

65 fish of different size in 340gal.

I think it's just my filtration over-performing. Skimmer + Reefmat + Ozone + UV.

When I carbon dose I observe much more polyp extension. I believe this is due to the coral consuming the extra bacteria.

This is what I'm wondering, if there are ancillary benefits beyond just pulling out the nitrate and phosphate.

 

[Salty_Northerner]

I was using tropic marin bio-actif salt and it's mild carbon dosing. I had to stop and revert back to the pro reef salt just because I was ALWAYS chasing nutrients. It wasn't worth it IMHO. If nutrients now start to creep up I just use some elimi-np for a few days and Bob's your uncle!

 

[Reefering1]

This is what I'm wondering, if there are ancillary benefits beyond just pulling out the nitrate and phosphate.

Let's see the tank, are there plenty coral that can consume the bacteria produced? If not then nutrient reduction is the main benefit

 

[static416]

Let's see the tank, are there plenty coral that can consume the bacteria produced? If not then nutrient reduction is the main benefit

Not the whole tank, but this gives the idea. Still very early.

There is also a predator-reef that shares the sump.

It's about 95% SPS, and they are almost entirely frags still, other than a few colonies from the prior tank.

That said, it's growing fast. It was consuming 1L of AllForReef per week before I switched to the calcium reactor.

The back-and-forth on it make me think it may be worth trying and see what happens.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Are there additional benefits to carbon dosing beyond just reducing nitrates and phos?

Yes, bacterial food for filter feeders.

Perhaps also direct uptake by corals, sponges, etc.

 

[static416]

Yes, bacterial food for filter feeders.

Good enough for me. Have some of those.

Will do.

 

[Spare time]

If you want to feed filter feeders then just dose filter feeder food.

 

[IntrinsicReef]

If you want to feed filter feeders then just dose filter feeder food.

With carbon dosing, there is a constant stream of bacterial plankton that many reef aquarium organisms are able to consume. It also might be an ideal size or feeding trigger.
Also, as Randy noted, corals and sponges can potentially uptake the acetate or other carbon source directly and utilize it for energy. ( I think this is how it works according to articles I've read.)

 

[Reef.]

Tropic Marin’s carbon dosing products Elimi and Bacto balance NP are meant to work on the basis that the bacteria becomes food for your corals, so much so that they say a skimmer is not required.

 

[Koty]

IMO & E carbon dosing is vital regardless of the state of Nitrates and phosphates. My phosphates are always high, but my nitrate is nearly 0 most of the time. Regardless, I dose x4 for the recommended amount of TM Elimi NP. I have zoanthids, soft corals, LPS and SPS, and many fish, and all looked happy for the last two years. I did lose my giant Cynarina for a reason I do not know. One way to look at carbon dosing is to replace sponges in natural coral reefs that release many carbon-based compounds crucial for the coral reef ecosystem.

 

[Pod_01]

Tropic Marin’s carbon dosing products Elimi and Bacto balance NP are meant to work on the basis that the bacteria becomes food for your corals, so much so that they say a skimmer is not required.

Out of curiosity, where did TM say that “skimmer is not required.”

I recall reading that @Hans-Werner runs his tanks without skimmers.
I just don’t recall them stating “skimmer is not required “.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you want to feed filter feeders then just dose filter feeder food.

That’s a fine approach, but it likely costs more.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I just don’t recall them stating “skimmer is not required “.

Most likely it was an answer to a question directed at me, maybe in a personal conversation or a forum's conversation.

Yes, in fact I have noticed that our Tropic Marin organic carbon dosing products are also effective without skimmer. The organic carbon creates (bacterial) biomass that does not end up in the skimmer without skimmer but goes up the food chain or into the food web. It works, maybe similar well.

I usually ask just to make shure good gas exchange.

 

[Pod_01]

Most likely it was an answer to a question directed at me, maybe in a personal conversation or a forum's conversation.

Yes, in fact I have noticed that our Tropic Marin organic carbon dosing products are also effective without skimmer. The organic carbon creates (bacterial) biomass that does not end up in the skimmer without skimmer but goes up the food chain or into the food web. It works, maybe similar well.

I usually ask just to make shure good gas exchange.

Thank you Hans. I know you like to run your tanks spartan style…

So if one decides to use no skimmer:
1) Good gas exchange is a must (skimmer helps in this).
2) I suspect one should not exceed the max dosing limit!!! I know this can get bit tricky when using multiple products.

Anything else to consider so one doesn’t suffocate the reef tank residents???

For no skimmer do you require sufficient coral mass or few frags will work as well?

 

[Hans-Werner]

We have rack systems, so gas exchange is enhanced in the downpipes. Good surface movement will also help.

For no skimmer do you require sufficient coral mass or few frags will work as well?

This question is a bit difficult. It is a point where "every tank is different". It may be difficult with a lot of fish and few coral frags. Vice versa for shure is better. However, also the bottom life, polychaetes etc., and detrivorous fish may take up surplus bacterial biomass.

 

[Spare time]

That’s a fine approach, but it likely costs more.

I would think it could replace the nitrate and phosphate dosing to some extent and possibly save money that way.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would think it could replace the nitrate and phosphate dosing to some extent and possibly save money that way.

Dosing N and P are much less expensive than foods.