Is live phyto lowering my phosphates?

[Forty-Two]

I think no, it would be the opposite. I use live phyto and it is also my main way to get extra needed phosphates into my tank.

Ive read several articles which state that live phyto lowers Phos and Nitrate levels in a tank. To what degree - I have no idea.

 

[Lyss]

Ive read several articles which state that live phyto lowers Phos and Nitrate levels in a tank.

I think that is mostly marketing from companies that sell live phytoplankton. In theory sure it could. But the small boost in phosphate I get is I’m sure due to the extra fert in the product.

This is just my feeling but I think it’s unlikely it would have a hugely noticeable effect on reducing nitrate or phosphate. And if you dose more than your tank can consume it would increase both when the phyto dies off.

 

[Forty-Two]

I think that is mostly marketing from companies that sell live phytoplankton. In theory sure it could. But the small boost in phosphate I get is I’m sure due to the extra fert in the product.

This is just my feeling but I think it’s unlikely it would have a hugely noticeable effect on reducing nitrate or phosphate. And if you dose more than your tank can consume it would increase both when the phyto dies off.

Interesting - thanks for sharing.

 

[Lyss]

Interesting - thanks for sharing.

Either way, I prefer live. I try to give my tank what it can consume, and prefer adding live than dead that will add nutrients right away like any other fish or coral food.

 

[Reefbuds]

@Forty-Two The tank is mature. About 5 years old with live rock and sand.
I use home cultured live phyto from Jay's Reef Bugs if that makes a difference, it's not commercial so I'm not sure how much fert concentration is in it, obviously not enough to raise my phosphates tho. I've read many articles stating that true live phyto will eat phosphate as a fuel to grow and reproduce, which has lead me to this question since I'm having such a hard time raising my phosphates above 0.. and I dose live phyto very regularly. At this point I think I will cut back to once a week on the live phyto, until I can get my phosphates up.
Maybe after I get regulate phosphate I will start dosing phyto again regularly and find a trend, pointing one way or another.

 

[Reefbuds]

Thanks @c_johns89 . Thats the only plan I can see going foward. I dont really want to cut it completely out so i'll cut back from every other night to once a week and see if that helps.

 

[homer1475]

I dose live phyto at the rate of 3ml/G daily to my 80G tank.

I also have to run GFO to keep phosphates down(between 0.1 and 0.2). So no, your dosing of live phyto is not using up your phosphates.

 

[Reefbuds]

Ok slam dunk answer there. So therefore my tank is truly just starved of phosphate.

 

[Lyss]

I honestly don't know the science of this, but my general feeling is that a lot of those claims of nitrate and phosphate reduction is marketing. I started off w/a different brand of live phyto than I use now, and when I started adding that in larger quantities my nitrates shot up. I was confused and went to their customer service to ask what could be happening. The story I got was a bit different from the marketing -- that I probably didn't have enough consuming it in my tank and it was dying off before it could be consumed.

 

[Forty-Two]

@Forty-Two The tank is mature. About 5 years old with live rock and sand.
I use home cultured live phyto from Jay's Reef Bugs if that makes a difference, it's not commercial so I'm not sure how much fert concentration is in it, obviously not enough to raise my phosphates tho. I've read many articles stating that true live phyto will eat phosphate as a fuel to grow and reproduce, which has lead me to this question since I'm having such a hard time raising my phosphates above 0.. and I dose live phyto very regularly. At this point I think I will cut back to once a week on the live phyto, until I can get my phosphates up.
Maybe after I get regulate phosphate I will start dosing phyto again regularly and find a trend, pointing one way or another.

The other option is that you can start feeding heavier - and using reef roids as well

 

[Timfish]

How many fish do you have and how much are you feeding them. How many corals do you have? Anything growing is going to use phosphorus. Thiis includes sponges and biofilms. Some sponges have been shown to sequester phosphorus in their tissues and biofilms in marine systems may have the ability to sequester large amounts also. I would be increasing feeding and dosing phosphorus to keep PO4 above .03 mg/l.

 

[Reefbuds]

I feed fairly heavy already at the moment, at least 1 cube a day. Thinking about incorporating more reef roids tho, I usually always see phosphate the day after I feed that. It just seems like as soon as I can get it above 0 it drops right back down. Eventually ill have a dosage regimen on the Neophos that will keep it up, just havnt made it there yet as I'm increasing slowly as to not over do it.
@Timfish , I have a pretty good bio load, including a Haddoni anemone I've had for over 4 years. A few sps, zoas, acans, star polyps, shrooms and some blue cespitularia that I have to trim up every few weeks.. that thing would take over in a few months if I let it. Just an average mixed reef. I also have a good chunk of Caulerpa I keep in the back.

 

[Reefbuds]

Sorry forgot the fish @Timfish . I have a Flame Hawk, Cherub Angelfish and a big mama Clarkii with a baby Clarkii I'm trying to get paired w/ it.

 

[Reefbuds]

Lots of hermits and various snails of course as well. Big Pod population also.

 

[Timfish]

Decades ago Le Chin Eng wrote corals are part of filtration and all the research I've read supports his conclusion. You apparently have a lot of corals growing well that are using up nutrients but just 1 medium and 4 small fish to provide nitrogen and phosphorus. I'd definitely start feeding a lot more and maybe consider adding more fish. Here's some stuff on nutrients if you're interested:

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching - Nature Climate Change

Increased dissolved inorganic nitrogen (DIN) concentrations in sea water have been linked to a reduction of the temperature threshold at which corals bleach, however, the mechanism underlying this change is not known. This phenomenon is now explained in terms of increased phosphatase activities...

www.nature.com

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Frontiers | Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont

Reef building corals associated with symbiotic algae (zooxanthellae) can access environmental nutrients from different sources, most significantly via the up...

www.frontiersin.org

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Enrichment of reef environments with dissolved inorganic nutrients is considered a major threat to the survival of corals living in symbiosis with din…

www.sciencedirect.com

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

Phosphate contamination can negatively affect corals, modifying growth rates, skeletal density, reproduction, mortality, and zooxanthellae. We determi…

www.sciencedirect.com

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARYSeveral untested aspects of the regulation of inorganic nutrient uptake were examined using nutrient depletion experiments with the symbiotic coral Stylophora pistillata. The total inhibition of phosphate uptake in artificial seawater lacking sodium indicates the involvement of a...

jeb.biologists.org

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecm.1217?casa_token=ziDzrEEJ8g0AAAAA%3AHnfuGTIntMdqOtx2ij-lnoTh7qVg8VBhYFz98e60zfBEvx5IcIVGhmlpUYmzIJuqUNVm0sG8_0vth6lq

2657円まるいち 博多辛子明太子(無着色) 「博多の華」 (ギフト用) 180g Z6572海産物イクラ,タラコ,魚卵 Qoo10]　「博　まるいち　博多辛子明太子(無着色) | therichross.com

2657円まるいち 博多辛子明太子(無着色) 「博多の華」 (ギフト用) 180g Z6572海産物イクラ,タラコ,魚卵 Qoo10]　「博　まるいち　博多辛子明太子(無着色) | therichross.com

therichross.com

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Marine sponges are ubiquitous colonizers of shallow, clear-water environments in the oceans (1, 2). Sponges have emerged as significant mediators of biogeochemical fluxes in coastal zones by virtue of respiring organic matter and facilitating both the consumption and release of nutrients (3, 4)...

www.pnas.org

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Coral reefs are highly productive ecosystems that raise a conundrum called “Darwin’s paradox”: How can high production flourish in low-nutrient conditions? We show here that in three abundant Caribbean sponges, the granules that have been commonly observed in sponge tissue for decades are...

www.pnas.org

(PDF) Phosphate excretion by anemonefish and uptake by giant sea anemones: Demand outstrips supply

PDF | High biodiversity on coral reefs results in part from tight nutrient cycling among symbiotic organisms, such as within the obligate associations... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Ammonium Uptake by Symbiotic and Aposymbiotic Reef Corals

Ammonium Uptake by Symbiotic and Aposymbiotic Reef Corals: Ingenta Connect

www.ingentaconnect.com

Amino acids a source of nitrogen for corals

Uptake of dissolved free amino acids by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

SUMMARY. This study was designed to assess the importance of dissolved free amino acids (DFAA) as a nitrogen source for the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata. For this purpose, experiments were performed using 15N-enriched DFAAs, and %15N enrichment was measured both in animal tissue and...

journals.biologists.com

Urea a source of nitrogen for corals

Urea uptake by the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Urea can be one of the major sources of nitrogen for phytoplankton, but little is known about its importance for corals. Experiments were therefore de…

www.sciencedirect.com

Diazotrpophs a source of nitrogen for corals

Diazotrophs: a non-negligible source of nitrogen for the tropical coral Stylophora pistillata - PubMed

Corals are mixotrophs: they are able to fix inorganic carbon through the activity of their symbiotic dinoflagellates and to gain nitrogen from predation on plankton and uptake of dissolved organic and inorganic nutrients. They also live in close association with diverse diazotrophic communities...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Context Dependant Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism

Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Request PDF

Request PDF | Context-dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral-algal mutualism | Human-mediated increases in nutrient availability alter patterns of primary production, impact species diversity, and threaten ecosystem function.... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...

www.researchgate.net

 

[Reefbuds]

Thank you for your reply @Timfish . I will definitely take time to read through these articles, they look like they are loaded with good info.

 

[Timfish]

You might actually start with the last one. The researchers were looking at a different species anemone but a pair of hosting clown couldn't come close to providing enough phosphorus to their anemone.

 

[Pistondog]

Ime dosing phyto raises po4. Verify your testing. Do you have any nuisance algae growing?

 

[Reefbuds]

No nuisance algae just a bit of dino due to lack of nutes. I'm using the Hanna HI774, so if my tests are off I'm doing something way wrong during the testing process.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

No nuisance algae just a bit of dino due to lack of nutes. I'm using the Hanna HI774, so if my tests are off I'm doing something way wrong during the testing process.

Have you gotten anywhere with this because I’m dosing phyto daily 120ml and have notice huge decrease in nitrate and phosphate from it which started to kill chalice from being to low. When adding a lot of phyto it will use nitrate and phophate to reproduce not add it to system.