Is my cycle staled? 6 weeks deep into fishless cycle.

[marcosnano]

Hi guys,

New guy in a hobby.

I have tested my water using 2 diffrent kits and results are same on both.

I did 3 PWC during these 5 weeks.

I have ammonia going from 2.00ppm to 0.5ppm in a day.

Recently I had nitrite and nitrate spike.

How long am I left? What should I do next?

Thank you!

 

[KrisReef]

Your tank is cycled for processing ammonia. Stop adding ammonia, do a 50% water change and never test for ammonia or nitrite again.

After the water change your tank is ready for a fish,?or two?

How big is the tank?
What critters do you want to keep? Corals? Fish? Snails? Shrimp?

It is best to figure out what you want and how much you want to add and then make a plan on how best to proceed.

The first thing I would do is toss those test kits

 

[marcosnano]

I'm afraid it's not cycled.

Week ago I was sure it is already cycled and I added one fish (yellow belly demsel) and hermit crab.

Fish died 48 hours after.

I want to be 100% sure tank is cycled before I added more fish.

 

[KrisReef]

I'm afraid it's not cycled.

Week ago I was sure it is already cycled and I added one fish (yellow belly demsel) and hermit crab.

Fish died 48 hours after.

I want to be 100% sure tank is cycled before I added more fish.

@brandon429

Updated cycling science trends in 2023

This thread is intended to discuss current trends in reef tank cycling and to predict + track changes in reef tank cycling science compared to prior years of observation *Post any cycle challenge from any reef board on the internet for a quick alignment. cycles do not stall, starve or take 3...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Just John]

If you are concerned, put in some bottled bacteria from your lfs. It is immediately cycled with that. And do whatever Brandon says. You are going to have a great tank soon!

 

[brandon429]

How was acclimation done

did those fish come from .016 water as most pet stores use, to mask selling diseased fish and then were added to a reef salinity display

how about bag floating, were they floated in a bag in the tank to acclimate / a popular thing the masses do to fish

how was disease ruled out when ammonia control is directly shown above in the rare api total yellow zero

cycling gets blamed for anything in early reefing challenges. we saw a thread recently / last week where a fully stocked and running reef with fish and corals had an anemone who didn’t want to fully open one day get blamed for a stuck cycle

there are no six week stuck cycles

that’s quite a lucky reading of yellow above compared to 90% of api readings, were it slightly green you’d still be cycled but my case would be harder to make for the public

can you post a full tank picture or your setup, the pics sometimes have neat clues in them

 

[marcosnano]

can you post a full tank picture or your setup, the pics sometimes have neat clues in them

Picture is attached.

Fish was from LFS, yellow belly damsel. First day fish was hidding behind the rock but she was eating some food I offered, 2nd day she died.

Was is nitrite poisoning?

I have added total 3 bottles of bacteria so far during these 6 weeks..

 

[brandon429]

nitrite cannot poison in reefing

what about the acclimation details above, did you verify the salt levels of your tank vs the water from the pet store

3 bottles of bac + 6 weeks you can rule out cycling issues in 100% of cases.

 

[Mschmidt]

You have detectible nitrite. let the bacteria do it's thing till that's gone. Also, it's unwise to trust api ammonia tests. 3 bottles of bac are more than enough, I'd stop adding and let it do its thing.

make sure you acclimate the fish properly. float the bag for 30+ minutes and then gradually add water till salinity matches.

 

[marcosnano]

nitrite cannot poison in reefing

what about the acclimation details above, did you verify the salt levels of your tank vs the water from the pet store

3 bottles of bac + 6 weeks you can rule out cycling issues in 100% of cases.

I did not check the saltinity levels in LFS water, mine is at 1.025.

I added some ammonia last night, these are results this morning. More nitrites and more nitrates.

 

[Cell]

What was your cycling method? Bottled bac? Shrimp?

If ammonia is being processed, you can start stocking slowly. Nitrite does not harm marine fish at the levels we experience. Toss your nitrate readings until nitrite goes down. You can't accurately test nitrate in the presence in nitrite.

 

[marcosnano]

You have detectible nitrite. let the bacteria do it's thing till that's gone. Also, it's unwise to trust api ammonia tests. 3 bottles of bac are more than enough, I'd stop adding and let it do its thing.

make sure you acclimate the fish properly. float the bag for 30+ minutes and then gradually add water till salinity matches.

I tested the water with other test brand too and nitrite levels are in stress levels.

I have floated the bag for 30 minutes, water had same temperature but I didn't check salinity levels in bag water.

 

[marcosnano]

What was your cycling method? Bottled bac? Shrimp?

If ammonia is being processed, you can start stocking slowly. Nitrite does not harm marine fish at the levels we experience. Toss your nitrate readings until nitrite goes down. You can't accurately test nitrate in the presence in nitrite.

Bottled bacteria. 2 bottles of turbo start so far.

How should I lower nitrites? Should I perform WC? How much water should I change?

 

[KrisReef]

I did not check the saltinity levels in LFS water, mine is at 1.025.

I added some ammonia last night, these are results this morning. More nitrites and more nitrates.

Everyone has told you the tank was cycled. The proof is the production of nitrates, which came from nitrites, which came from the breakdown (cycled) of the ammonia you added. When I read your first reply I saw you were not listening, ime. I said in my first post the tank was cycled, DONT ADD MORE AMMONIA (sorry for the caps, just wanted to get you to stop and consider what folks are telling you.) I didnt listen well for many, many year, just rushing around doing things not understanding FULLY what I was trying to do.

Please read this thread fully, and stop adding ammonia, unless you are a troll, and you got me?

 

[Mschmidt]

I tested the water with other test brand too and nitrite levels are in stress levels.

I have floated the bag for 30 minutes, water had same temperature but I didn't check salinity levels in bag water.

I'd stop adding ammonia.
further, I'd temp acclimate: (float the bag with the lights off) then put the fish in a bucket or bowl with the store water. add half a cup or less of tank water to the bucket every five or 10 minutes. do this till the water has doubled. throw out half the water and do it till doubled again. at that point, you should be good to add the fish. try to keep the store water out of your tank.

How did the fish look in the store? swimming strongly, looking healthy, not gaunt or cloudy eyes, no weird growths or discolorations on it?

It would be a really good idea to quarantine the new fish, but if that is not doable, a medicated dip isn't a bad idea. I qt new fish for 30+ days in a separate tank with copper. This is the "best practice" for quarantine.

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[marcosnano]

How did the fish look in the store? swimming strongly, looking healthy, not gaunt or cloudy eyes, no weird growths or discolorations on it?

Fish was looking good, but they had hard time catching the fish, they were chasing her a lot, maybe they stress her out by doing this?

I will def do these acclimatization steps with next fish.

I also have hermit crab in tank and he is doing fine, very active animal.

Should I do some WC before I add 1 fish tomorrow?

Thank you

 

[flyingscampi]

Get a Salifert ammonia test kit, or Red Sea, anything but API. If there is no ammonia then you can add a fish.

Don't forget to feed your hermit, I imagine the tank is bare of algae?

 

[brandon429]

no water change needed

simply cease all cycling verification that way you don't get tripped up on the other factors that protect fish

*this tank never needs to be tested for ammonia or nitrite again as long as it's running. that's because: ammonia cannot re rise or get stalled again. only dead fish left in the tank to rot could drive it up, and if you remove any dead fish (or dead animals besides fish) ammonia can never rise again. You don't need a test kit to know if there's dead fish in the tank which is why you wouldn't test for ammonia ever again.

Nitrite has no basis in cycling whatsoever in reef displays, you can cease nitrite testing on future tanks as well, don't own the kit it will cause you hesitation and to miss the other factors that protect fish.

*read the disease forum to get acclimation details/not any method of bag floating is safe per that forum. you're now past cycling, and into reefing as long as that tank holds water.

 

[Soren]

Do you understand the chemistry of the nitrogen cycle?
Ammonia is converted to nitrite, then nitrite is converted to nitrate.
The presence of nitrite indicates that the nitrifying bacteria are active. The increasing presence of nitrate indicates that the nitrogen cycle is being completed that far.

Every time you add ammonia at any significant level, you will see increase in nitrites and then increase in nitrates soon after if your nitrifying bacteria is active (as I think it is in your case).

Water change will be helpful to reduce the nitrate level.

The previous deaths are more likely related to some other reason as stated above, at least in my opinion.

 

[marcosnano]

Thank you soren.

Brandon thinks I should not perform WC.

I'm wondering should I do it or not, if I do it, how much water should I change?