Is my quarantine tank cycled ?

[ying yang]

Filter on right is another internal sponge filter with sponge and housing took out and using just for more flow
Will either take out or just put housing back on when fish added so fish doesn't end up being diced fish from impellar

 

[brandon429]

the display is fully cycled for all reasons stated. very nice post, nice setups too!

we don't expect your non digital ammonia kit to read better than that. getting that low on the qt already shocked me you aren't allowed to get lucky with api twice in the same thread.

both your systems are cycled, don't even bother changing water on the display its ready as is. begin, no more cycle testing required it'll just cause you to doubt all proofs in place.


even as we read, because api says its not ready in the display all your internal cells are on full alert and doubt is 100%
the water is clear, doest smell, wrecked ammonia tanks smell bad and aren't clear.

but the test says it, and we can't deny chemistry...that's the training. all written material for cycling says it, agreed.


this is a mechanism that coincidentally benefits bottle bac salespersons, Im saying its very very very coincidental.

we hack cycles into doing exactly what we want, when we want, and we name the ready date before the arrangements are even built. if this wasn't possible, nobody could bring reefs to a reefing convention they'd all have to recycle on the spot and await API's clearance.

we are using seller's science in your thread vs the buyer's science.

 

[ying yang]

Umm this confusing me.seen you say this many times to others and seen others believe you and add fish and all ok.
But my question is how does the same test kit give false negative/positive ? And qt 0 ppm amnonia and dt 1ppm amnonia.so has dt got amnonia in it or not kind of thing ?

 

[ying yang]

Just tested display and still same amnonia 1 ppm and nitrite 0.25 but ok thanks for advice.greatly appreciated and be 1 more month before fish in dt anyhow so dt would been 2 month from begginning when first added flake food and till fish finishes qt.
Ok great i carry on as i thought and get fish for qt tommorrow ( provided qt makes amnonia 0ppm again,dont see why it shouldnt though) ^_^

 

[brandon429]

search this on google tell me what you think about the patterns returned

api ammonia misread


search those terms see if the respondents think the test is right by and large.

I know lots of folks like to discount google search returns

these are non billionaire folks with no algorithms to post, though he he

google is an excellent way to see what your peers think about api ammonia reliability. also can run the search here at rtr

I just ran it and the first ten pages of returns are doubts and display tank owners showing misreads.

new cycling science has developed due to the very issues you're facing. if you want the freshest cycling info consider this option:

Updated Cycling Science thread 2020

The number of parameters measured allowing your start date is now reduced from three parameters measured (ammonia nitrite nitrate) into only one-nh3 form free ammonia. We dont need three-parameter compliance anymore to begin reefing safely. we need know only that ammonia is controlled. you...

www.reef2reef.com

**many folks can wield API correctly that's no doubt.

were those folks in your search returns or was average joe and judy doing the titration/results/confusion

that's because the minority of testers are able to use api accurately. when that changes the search returns for google and rtr will flip opposite.

 

[ying yang]

Brandon429Yeah been following what you been adding on this forum for about 2 months now about stalled cycles/if amnonia drops from 2ppm-0ppm in 24 hours your cycled/if get nitrates then bacteria in place and etc etc this why i been doing what you suggesting ( with reading others believing you and having success cemeted the deal) so did what you said except went little longer adding amnonia and added 50% water change in after 14 days or so and now 90-95% water change on day 22 ( today in qt tank ) so thanks for all your advice and hopefully the masses start listening/agreeing with you as so far all i seen is you give advice on these bacteria/surface area etc and people listen and have success so thanks again much appreciated and have good day ^_^

 

[brandon429]

cant wait to see your stuff up and running. post pics w fish pls that's the final tie in...what use is any predictive science if it cant carry a simple fish load. its fun to be accountable for these calls even before the final test is in place. its the feedback from these prediction posts that alters reef cycling itself, we think it's 100% predictable and not 99% to the point testing isn't even required anymore. we can cycle all dry setups without testing altogether by simply importing two different bac strains for cycling...there's no way statistically that both brands have been killed by bad shipping/handling. a double dose of two varying mixes meant for cycling is a testless guaranteed to complete cycle. add two pinches of feed dr reefs trick.

in your case, testing specifically shows its ready its just fun to muse over the simplest option we found from studying updated cycling rules.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

No typo i meant nitrite at least 2ppm as showed in pictures 5 and 6.its clearly a dark purple which represents 2ppm unless im colour blind but mrs sees what i see also.in the last 2 weeks nitrites been either 2ppm or 5ppm or maybe higher as test maxed out at 5ppm as 2 or 5 ppm nitite colour card look identical nearly

Sometimes, when cycling a tank with ammonium chloride, you get a "nitrite block". Page 50 of this journal describes the issue:

http://drumandcroaker.org/pdf/2019.pdf

The author uses coca cola as a carbon/phosphorus source to break this block and get the cycle to finish. I've used it myself and it does seem to work.

Still, 2 ppm No2-N after a 90% water change really is unheard of. That would mean prior to the change, the level was on the order of 16 to 20 ppm Without a water change, nitrite rarely climbs above 1 ppm during cycling.

Jay

 

[ying yang]

Yeah will add pictures of fish in qt tank to show that all is ok or not ok.ie swimming around frantically or gasping for air etc etc.
Just need ring lfs tommorrow to see if got fish in ( which be pair of common clown fish as requested from 3 year old daughter) i wanted black ice clown fish but off course daughter wants nemo exactly so she wins ha ha.
And need to ring up lfs and ask what salinity the fish are in at lfs either 1.020 as fish only or if they run systems at 1.025-1.026 ( like reef tanks) if was me who owned lfs i would run sg at 1.020 as cheaper using less salt and more oxygen in water and many other benifits but will match salinity mixing more salt tommorrow morning in qt if needed so easier for fish as this what we trying to achive make fish life comfortably as possible right

 

[Azedenkae]

27 march =added 45 drops amnonia
Amnonia 2 ppm ,nitrite/nitrate 0
28 march =same.
29 march= added 20 drops amnonia as amnonia 1 ppm so got it back to 2 ppm,nitite,nitrate 0
30-31 march =amnonia 2-4 ppm also added air stone ,nitrite/nitrate=0
1 April =2 ppm amnonia,nitrite/nitrate 0
2 april=1ppm amnonia,nitrite 0.25.added 10 drops amnonian chloride
3-4 april =no testing
5 april 4ppm amnonia, nitite 2-5 or more,nitrate 5-10
6 april 2-4 ppm amnonia, nitrite 2-5 or morenitrate 5-10
7 april 2 ppm amnonoa.nitrite 2-5 or more.nitrate 5-10
8-9th april =no test.
10 th april=0.5 ppm amnonia.nitrite 2-5 ppm or more.nitrate 10 ppm.
11th=no test.
12th april=0 ppm amnonia.2-5ppm or more nitrite.10 ppm nitrate.

Something is wrong with either the tests or the testing procedure. Weird to see ammonia decreasing but not nitrite was measured, then suddenly there is nitrite measured at relatively high concentrations. This is before any water change was done. It seems to correspond to the addition of the air stone.

But anyways yeah, something is wonky there.

 

[ying yang]

Just read that link page 50 but what you saying about nitrification and lack of phosporus i believe is on page 51.thanks alot im no chemist or microbiologist but it does intrigue me and do like reading/learning things like this so thanks

 

[brandon429]

regarding nitrite block: we think its never occurred in a posted display reef tank ever, not a single event.

not that it cannot be replicated in a lab or in a high bioload culture facility...just not a common display reef tank they're orders beyond surface area and wait time needs in nearly every case.

the only reason am posting that was so that it doesn't look like some reefs turn out ok and some do not...1000% of display tank cycles do not stall per this link which is all reef tank studies:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

Updated Cycling Science in Action This is a testless reef tank cycling thread, the only one from any board. If you ever had trouble with reef tank cycling in the past, you won't any longer after working some jobs with us. chances are you are using/about to use a method of reef tank cycling...

www.reef2reef.com

notice above no phosphate testing, this is supposed to be required.

no testing for anything but ammonia movement, all comply.

friendly request: anyone try and locate a failed cycle display tank reef and quickly post the example there for analysis against the current collection.

it is so, so vital to use reef tank examples in reef tank proofs.

lab studies showed peroxide harmful to bac

but in a reef tank on seneye it helps the bacteria intermittently and afterwards the nh3 conversion rates remain in spec.

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

Team would anyone with a seneye dose one mil of 3% per ten gallons and lets track if nitrification is affected one iota this data is missing from all of reefing by the way. Dont begin peroxide dosing if you don’t already use it whenev but if someone has already used it and owns a seneye we...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ying yang]

Something is wrong with either the tests or the testing procedure. Weird to see ammonia decreasing but not nitrite was measured, then suddenly there is nitrite measured at relatively high concentrations. This is before any water change was done. It seems to correspond to the addition of the air stone.

But anyways yeah, something is wonky there.

Didnt test ph every day but tested around 5 times in total in the last 22 days on this qt tank.everytime was 7.8 ph and never different so airstone not change ph by adding more oxygen to water and ph affected the bacteria/cycle.
As far as i am aware of testing using api test kits for last 9 years and watching at begginning how lfs did it and reading instructuons of api and doing exact as it said plus you tube videos im doing as should be.( done lots research on lots things my head nearly ready to explode lol ) but we only learn if willing i say.
But see what you saying.
1 april =0 nitrite.
2 april =0.25 nitrite.
3-4 April =no testing
5 april = now at 2-5 ppm nitrite or much higher than 5ppm as test maxes out at 5ppm.
Be interesting to know if tested 3-4 april how the nitrite rised but didnt test so never will know.
I did 90-95% water change today and even after such a large water change nitrite still showing as 2ppm but even more bizarre is i did a 50% water change about 5-7 days ago also so water really been diluted but maybe because i been running dt system 22 days and added more amnonia chloride than most do and i read doctor tim saying more amnonia chlorode you add the more nitite you will get.maybe this why but i don't know

 

[ying yang]

Been running qt system i meant to say for 22 days and not dt sorry

 

[Azedenkae]

>

Didnt test ph every day but tested around 5 times in total in the last 22 days on this qt tank.everytime was 7.8 ph and never different so airstone not change ph by adding more oxygen to water and ph affected the bacteria/cycle.
As far as i am aware of testing using api test kits for last 9 years and watching at begginning how lfs did it and reading instructuons of api and doing exact as it said plus you tube videos im doing as should be.( done lots research on lots things my head nearly ready to explode lol ) but we only learn if willing i say.
But see what you saying.
1 april =0 nitrite.
2 april =0.25 nitrite.
3-4 April =no testing
5 april = now at 2-5 ppm nitrite or much higher than 5ppm as test maxes out at 5ppm.
Be interesting to know if tested 3-4 april how the nitrite rised but didnt test so never will know.
I did 90-95% water change today and even after such a large water change nitrite still showing as 2ppm but even more bizarre is i did a 50% water change about 5-7 days ago also so water really been diluted but maybe because i been running dt system 22 days and added more amnonia chloride than most do and i read doctor tim saying more amnonia chlorode you add the more nitite you will get.maybe this why but i don't know

I just find it bizarre that your ammonia decreased without any increase in nitrite at first, then suddenly your ammonia decreased with a corresponding increase in nitrite. I don't think your nitrite test is off necessarily, as when you read 0 nitrite, you also read 0 nitrate, and when you did read some nitrite, you also read some nitrate.

The nitrate test kit gives false positives when there is nitrite, so that is why the correlation there may make sense.

Anyways, I have no answers. Just find it weird. I mean the only thing I can think of is that initially your ammonia is being consumed some other way and not nitrification, and then nitrification kicked in. Or something along those lines. But eh, that would require a lot of investigations like, did you get a bacterial bloom, what biomedia (rock, sand, etc.) did you use, and so on.

 

[ying yang]

@brandon429 here video as promised.
Rang lfs this morning and clownfish in sg 1.019 tank and mine 1.020 and mine and lfs both 7.8 on my test kit ,bought food they was feeding clowns so less transition to my tank as possible.
Temp aclimated floating bag for 15 minutes( only had 30 minute drive home from lfs)
Did just under 1 hour acliminsation( empied in jug and put tank water in jug every 5 minutes,half way through emptied bit jug water out and continuing every 5 minutes adding tank water etc)
This video 5 minutes after releasing them into qt tank.
Had to turn one internal filters off with no sponge or housing as the clownfish significantly smaller than thought or wanted them to be ( there like miniscule juveniles) and the flow to powerful for them and they literally fighting the current.may put sponge back in and see if flow ok for them at later date.
Now 3 hours has passed and they still swimming about all good and proper as expected.
Ovbiously checked amnonia again before went lfs to get fish and again tank converted 2ppm amnonia -0 ppm within the 24 hours ( as expected)
Watched all clownfish ( about 10) in lfs tank eating and examined all fish for dieseses/pests/abnormalities but seen 0 so said pick me 2
When doing video and zooming in i noticed one got some nipped fins ( hopefully not fin rot) hopefully all be well and grow back as it matures.
All swimming/breathing great so far that i can see.
So now qt starts which is in a large cupboard out the way so less stress for them as possible.so will report back here on any progress/issues that arrise so anyone who following or any in future can see steps that was took and final outcome.
Once again thanks to all who give any advice/opinions. Hope your day been good ^_^

 

[brandon429]

I couldn't get it to load but based on the description we can infer lots about your tank anyway.

watch for water clouding, that's the harbinger if anything starts to trend wrong it'll be indicated in cloudy water vs clear

 

[ying yang]

Ummm yeah i cant get the video to load either but thats not saying much as me and tech are arch enemies and tech usually kicks my butt ^_^

 

[ying yang]

Ok great will look for water clouding or anything out the ordinary.
Only thing i noticed as cap fell off bottom heater i put it back on and some bacteria growing on cable and disturbed it and few pieces floating around tank.
Ok thanks for all your advice yesterday and to others in last few years as been reading it this last 2 months or so about only need test amnonia and the conversion of amnonia in cycling as nitrites/nitrates not toxic in salt water.
Maybe if i waiting for my high nitrites reading from my api test kit i still be here next year waiting for 0ppm lol

 

[ying yang]

Try again with video