Is my ro buddie not my buddie

[AZDesertRat]

The video is a little deceiving at best. They performed the tests at 1 GPM which is 4 times faster than a 75 GPD RO/DI system at 4:1 waste ratio operates at which is about 1 quart a minute so of course there would not be sufficient contact time in the carbon block.

Membrane flush kits have no proven value other than to lighten your wallet and give you a warm fuzzy feeling. If you want value add a DI bypass valve so you can flush the TDS creep which has migrated to the treated side of the membrane to waste so it does not shorten the life of your DI resin. Flush kits only flush the waste side of the membrane so do not accomplish this.

Stick with handheld TDS meters versus inlines or in addition to. You will find once you use the handheld you willl hardly ever turn the inline on anymore and will never rely on it due to its built in problems such as not being truly temperature compensated. They also lack the portability of the handheld so you are stuck with limited points where the handheld can test anywhere with reliable accuracy. At a minimum you need tap TDS, RO only TDS and final RO/DI TDS but it is nice to be able to test your ATO storage, water change containers, the LFS water, bottled water etc.

Something I would add to the list is a capillary tube flow restrictor so you can adjust your waste ratio to fit your exact water conditions. Not everyones water is the same so you adjust it for best performance and membrane life.

 

[cdness]

I am with AZ on this one...

First off, your system is basically in need of a full rebuild at the very least. It is usually just as cheap to go for new especially if yours doesn't have DI. Save the canisters in case of issues, but replace the unit...

A good carbon BLOCK will remove or at least break down the chloramines enough for the membrane and DI to polish off the rest. There is no need for a special cartridge. However if it gives you warm fuzzy feelings inside running one, it doesn't hurt either. It's just a waste of money with how often it would have to be replaced.

Quality DI is a must for RODI systems. however I must say that the Spectrapure, Air Water Ice (H2O Guru), Bulk Reef Supply and AquaFx all have good DI. I have noticed no difference in filtration efficiency or length of life of each different resin. I tried the MaxCap from Spectrapure and while good resin, it didn't last any longer for me. YMMV though as I have high CO2 in my water so I will burn DI faster because of that...

The Spectrapure unit AZ linked to is a great unit. If you are concerned about the "refurb" tag on them and want to spend a little more, the RODI units from all the ones I mentioned above are good units.

I personally run a BRS 5 stage with the dual DI MaxCap setup, Spectrapure 90 GPD tested membrane and Spectrapure filters...

 

[AZDesertRat]

We also need to keep in mind, the rating on chlorine blocks such as 20,000 gallons, 12,000 gallons, 9,000 gallons and so on is for tap water presented at 1 ppm or mg/L residual disinfectant. BRS stated in their first video in the series that their chloramine residual was almost 4 mg/L which is very close to the EPA MRDL (Maximum Residual Disinfectant Level) of 4.0 mg/L for chlorine and chloramines both. This is much higher than we normally see in the municipal drinking water industry for a residual so that alone would cut the 1 micron carbon blocks life down drastically from the 12,000 gallon advertised capacity. In the Southwest we normally see chlorine or chloramine residual levels in the 1.0 to 1.5 mg/L range and rarely over 2.0.

Personally I have tried DI resins from BRS, Buckeye Hydro, Resin Depot, AWI and Spectrapure and noticed remarkable difference. My DI life averaged 150 measured gallons with most of them and that was allowing the treated TDS to get to 3 or so before changing cartridges or resin to its present 1000+ gallons out of a single MaxCap and 3000+ gallons out of the downstream SilicaBuster. Phoenix does have a slight problem with CO2 in our water but not like many places where a CO2 degassing tower might benefit users to save on DI resin replacements.

 

[gtbarsi]

Like I said plenty of people that will give you feedback...

I agree with most of what was just stated. There are best practices and then there is what most people will end up doing. There are definitely different qualities of carbon blocks, and sediment filters, and I am inclined to give the Spectrapure ones a try when it come time for me to replace my filters. The referb unit linked definitely is a move in the right direction from where the OP is at and the price can't be beat.

Quality DI resin in a vertical up flow filter is also a must, inline DI cartridges do not get the job done well at all.

Test and let us know what the results are, from there the level of filtration and the options should become clear.

 

[labdummie]

Just stating the obvious but please dont let me affend any of you because I love all the advice and I am soaking it up like a sponge, but we all know that we are better off buying high quality ro/di, inline tds meter, chloromine tester, auto topoff, extra filters, and maybe an emergency fire alarm. But my emediate budget is pretty light after upgrading to a sump filter system. So far from what I can gather from you guys I need to abort spending more money on the shawty ro unit I have and get a better setup as in the spectrapure. Then maybe later upgrade to a more controlled setup. Gotta do what I can to keep this from being a money pit. You guys are certainly getting me pointed in the right direction. Thanks again everybody.

 

[AlexF]

im with you on this I just finished installing my RO buddie and after this thread I will be upgrading in the near future but as for now I am going to make due with the money spent so far on this unit and upgrade sooner than later

 

[labdummie]

I hope it works better for you than me. It worked good for about 5 months but seem to wear out quick. I just dont think the water is bad enough here to wear it out so quick but I just dont have enough experience to say.

 

[KorD]

Buy the DI part.. I have water averaging high 100s, after it exists the DI it is at 0 ppm.... worth every slow drop by drop of it

 

[gtbarsi]

Buy the DI part.. I have water averaging high 100s, after it exists the DI it is at 0 ppm.... worth every slow drop by drop of it

DI will solve a lot of problems if it is good quality and has enough contact time. You will BURN through it faster and faster for every TDS. The normal goal is to have it cleaning up the last 1-2 TDS that the rest of your filters and RO membrane do not get. Additionally TDS can make it through so keep testing.

 

[KorD]

DI will solve a lot of problems if it is good quality and has enough contact time. You will BURN through it faster and faster for every TDS. The normal goal is to have it cleaning up the last 1-2 TDS that the rest of your filters and RO membrane do not get. Additionally TDS can make it through so keep testing.

I test constantly with my tds meter.. I can burn though a chamber of resin in 4 months.

 

[labdummie]

What type of ro/di are you running KorD?

 

[AZDesertRat]

Read these FAQ's to get a better understandiing of why Spectrapure RO/DI systems are different from any other and why DI lasts so much longer:

FAQ p.2

FAQ p.2

Maximize Performance - Minimize Cost

Reverse Osmosis General Info

Technical Info

And for those who like videos:

Videos!


Not only can you get a top of the line reef quality RO/DI for $125, it will also out last other systems and cost less to operate over its lifespan making your total investment many times less with true 18.2 megaohm resistivity pure water.

 

[gtbarsi]

Here is a great video on carbon blocks, Chlorine, Chloramine, and RO/DI systems in general. [video=youtube;KHHaR1PHYoA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHaR1PHYoA[/video] And the database they mention is here Chloramines Database - Bulk Reef Supply
The best thing you can do is get a test kit and determine how much Chlorine, Chloramine you have to deal with. You may also want to test your tap water for Ammonia and Phosphates, to get an idea exactly what your filter needs to be able to remove for you and then you can pick a system that makes sens to you. Getting the right RO/DI system for your water supply is probably one of the most critical steps in keeping a reef tank, with out it success can be impossible.

Some other items I would want on an RO/DI system are:
A membrane flush kit (automatic flush kits are awesome but very costly)
Quality pressure gauge before the RO membrane (the RO membrane can not work correctly with low pressure, and as your filters fill / clog you will see a drop in pressure before the RO membrane.)
A multi probe inline TDS meter (to get a general idea where the TDS is at various stages.(source water and post RO before DI are a minimum. After DI is nice but not required.)
An automatic shut off switch so you can use a float switch or shut off valve on your water output and it will cut off the water coming into the filter.

Let us know you testing results and im sure several of us would be happy to review good, better, best options with you with regard to what filter & accessories you want to get.

Regarding SpectraPure, I have nothing against SpectraPure, I just do not know their products. BRS shares a lot of great info and I bought one of their filters so I tend to reference their gear. I would love it if someone could do an independent test on their filters and carbon blocks against the ones recommended and sold by BRS, but I doubt that will ever happen.

Here is the followup video with the results from the testing.
[video=youtube_share;GZQBDqZzu04]http://youtu.be/GZQBDqZzu04[/video]
The testing was preformed with extremely high levels of Chloramines, and is not representative of what most people will have. However it does demonstrate that if you do have Chloramines in your water supply testing, better carbon blocks, as well as RO membrane(s) with better (lower ratios) waste to product water will help you manage the challenge of generating good clean water for you tanks.

If you are willing to let your RO membrane(s) get oxidized more than they need to then you can get even longer life out of the carbon blocks by letting the DI stage remove what is left. Personally I would do everything I could to treat as much of the Chloramines with the carbon block(s) as possible, since RO filters and DI refills are expensive.

 

[AquaFX Verified Sponsor]

I would add on the DI.
Also, I recommend getting a new membrane. Your current one is not performing where it should be.
We recommend changing (our)sediment and carbon on the AquaFX after approx. 250 gallons of product water

 

[BillyW]

i have an RO Buddie and my tap going in is at 175ish and coming and going into the DI is at 01-03 and coming out the DI is 0. replace the two two side cartridges and get a DI and you will be fine, got DI and both cartridges off amazon for like 30 bucks.

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

30 could be good or bad, without knowing specifically what it is made up of you can't say. If it were simply calcium and magnesium its no big deal. If it is phosphates, silicates, nitrates and so on it could be very bad. Thts the problem with TDS, while itis our best way of testing Distilled, RO and RO/DI water it only tells us that something electrically conductive is present but does not specify what it is. For this reason we strive for 0 TDS meaning everything has been removed, good and bad, and we have pure water as a starting point for our salt mix which contains everything we need and in the right amounts.

Touché, my friend. I'm not one to test various parameters in RO/DI and just rely on TDS readings. Perfect explanation by you :thumb: