Is my tank half-cycling?

[3jhudak]

So I am trying to cycle my new 65 gallon tank, and I think I am experiencing a pretty weird issue. Quick rundown of my setup:

Caribsea live sand
Dry rock (I do not think it has ever been in water/ever been live)
RODI water to mix with Instant Ocean Reef Crystals
Protein Skimmer
Red Sea Reef Mature kit

I am at the end of the 21 day cycle period (per the instructions on the kit) and I followed everything except adding any livestock. As of my last round of testing I have 1ppm ammonia, 20ppm nitrate, but 0ppm nitrite. Ammonia has risen but my nitrites have all converted to nitrates. Is my tank only half cycling and not processing the ammonia? And what could I do to resolve it? I had nitrites previously but they are gone,and my ammonia had fluctuated throughout the cycling.

 

[brandon429]

Your tank is fully cycled. Testers range in accuracy

Pull up a google cycling chart, at day 21 both nitrite and ammonia are linked, and under control so you are cycled, nothing in your initial arrangement is antibacterial so the charting will be more reliable than the test. Where did the google cycling chart as about your allowances, inputs, it simply gives an X Y axis chart that solves for time alone~know submersion time, cross ref the following param measures provided you aren't assessing filthy wastewater. Base analyses on clean water samples (post full water change if you require further proofing)

Final proof: add something it will live. Change a good bit or all of the wastewater out to have less algae feed, before you begin.

You can also just input half a ppm ammonia and watch it clear overnite for proof, that's a legit chem/testing proof.

Changing all wastewater before you assess ammonia is required, you'd take a pic of what your tester shows to be zero ammonia after the full water change, to calibrate zero for your particular reader. Then dose 1/2-1 ppm, it'll go back to calibrated zero overnite.

-instead of us all guessing, you have a calibration step that dead measures claims totally accurately. I have not yet pinpointed why reefers aren't totally motivated to end such guessing, they could

No cycle has ever stalled in all of reefing it's a huge ploy to sell you bottle bac.
ouch/shots fired to bottle bac sellers lol

We just measure cycles differently now than used to be allowed. We can cycle any reef tank using the time axis of a cycling chart and full water change, you should test us on that claim.

Most testers out there cannot differentiate nitrite from nitrate, it's why we only bother testing with calibrated ammonia kits and a time variable known. If we were discussing seneye ammonia readings or mindstream (digital testers) we wouldn't have to change out wastewater (removes cross read causes) to calibrate.

 

[MnFish1]

So I am trying to cycle my new 65 gallon tank, and I think I am experiencing a pretty weird issue. Quick rundown of my setup:

Caribsea live sand
Dry rock (I do not think it has ever been in water/ever been live)
RODI water to mix with Instant Ocean Reef Crystals
Protein Skimmer
Red Sea Reef Mature kit

I am at the end of the 21 day cycle period (per the instructions on the kit) and I followed everything except adding any livestock. As of my last round of testing I have 1ppm ammonia, 20ppm nitrate, but 0ppm nitrite. Ammonia has risen but my nitrites have all converted to nitrates. Is my tank only half cycling and not processing the ammonia? And what could I do to resolve it? I had nitrites previously but they are gone,and my ammonia had fluctuated throughout the cycling.

What did you add to 'feed the bacteria'?

 

[KrisReef]

Hey, you are new on here.
Welcome to Reef2Reef!

It does seem like your ammonia test kit might be the source of error. If your water is clear I would presume your ammonia is actually at zero. I agree with @brandon429 that adding ammonia and watching it be consumed would be a good way to validate your tank has cycled.

Slow additions as the tank is still young.

 

[lapin]

Howdy

 

[lapin]

I would wait and re-test your ammonia in 1 or 2 days.
If it shows the same then your ammonia test is off.
If it goes down then your mind will be at ease.

 

[MnFish1]

Your tank is fully cycled. Testers range in accuracy

Pull up a google cycling chart, at day 21 both nitrite and ammonia are linked, and under control so you are cycled, nothing in your initial arrangement is antibacterial so the charting will be more reliable than the test. Where did the google cycling chart as about your allowances, inputs, it simply gives an X Y axis chart that solves for time alone~know submersion time, cross ref the following param measures provided you aren't assessing filthy wastewater. Base analyses on clean water samples (post full water change if you require further proofing)

Final proof: add something it will live. Change a good bit or all of the wastewater out to have less algae feed, before you begin.

You can also just input half a ppm ammonia and watch it clear overnite for proof, that's a legit chem/testing proof.

Changing all wastewater before you assess ammonia is required, you'd take a pic of what your tester shows to be zero ammonia after the full water change, to calibrate zero for your particular reader. Then dose 1/2-1 ppm, it'll go back to calibrated zero overnite.

-instead of us all guessing, you have a calibration step that dead measures claims totally accurately. I have not yet pinpointed why reefers aren't totally motivated to end such guessing, they could

No cycle has ever stalled in all of reefing it's a huge ploy to sell you bottle bac.
ouch/shots fired to bottle bac sellers lol

We just measure cycles differently now than used to be allowed. We can cycle any reef tank using the time axis of a cycling chart and full water change, you should test us on that claim.

Most testers out there cannot differentiate nitrite from nitrate, it's why we only bother testing with calibrated ammonia kits and a time variable known. If we were discussing seneye ammonia readings or mindstream (digital testers) we wouldn't have to change out wastewater (removes cross read causes) to calibrate.

Agree - it could be the test - but - Not sure how you can say 'the tank is cycled'. Unless you're suggesting that all of the things people do to 'cycle a tank' are wrong (i.e. add ammonia, bacteria and test). It sounds like he didnt add any 'food for the bacteria' - I think I know your answer to the question (ie. that after that time - bacteria will still have time to 'grow' - but if thats the case - why bother with ammonia/bacteria in the first place - since most people that do fishless cycling do it for a month or so.

 

[brandon429]

We'll never know if he doesn't test using calibrated clean water.

Since he reports more than .25 sustained I'm thinking that cycling kit has feed inherent

 

[MnFish1]

We'll never know if he doesn't test using calibrated clean water.

Since he reports more than .25 sustained I'm thinking that cycling kit has feed inherent

I didnt get the impression from the OP - that he used anything to 'cycle' - just water and rock and live sand (Is that what you meant) - Curious - what is meant by calibrated clean water?

 

[brandon429]

Something has to account for the 1 ppm reading, inputs required to get that after 21 days

His cycle approach from Red Sea is a multi additive if I’m not mistaken

Edited the top post just now for calibration steps required if we are going to forego accurate testers like seneye

I googled that Red Sea cycling kit it’s four bottles. Liferock found a way to paint feed onto dry rocks along with bac, so them packing bac feed into liquid somehow is no surprise. I’ll vote fully this tank would pass calibrated re measure, if not rank it one star among the fives outstanding / product is loved

What are the chances among those ratings this tank here is the outlier. It’s to the point I’m about ready to pay people via paypal for running the tests, with pics showing each calibration step, it’s time to get this data no matter what. We have all been guessing and depending on what bottle bac sellers tell us for too long, a revolution comes in 2020 lol break the retail grip hold on cycling post the measures.

 

[MnFish1]

Something has to account for the 1 ppm reading, inputs required to get that after 21 days

His cycle approach from Red Sea is a multi additive if I’m not mistaken

Edited the top post just now for calibration steps required if we are going to forego accurate testers like seneye

I googled that Red Sea cycling kit it’s four bottles. Liferock found a way to paint feed onto dry rocks along with bac, so them packing bac feed into liquid somehow is no surprise. I’ll vote fully this tank would pass calibrated re measure, if not rank it one star among the fives outstanding / product is loved

What are the chances among those ratings this tank here is the outlier. It’s to the point I’m about ready to pay people via paypal for running the tests, with pics showing each calibration step, it’s time to get this data no matter what. We have all been guessing and depending on what bottle bac sellers tell us for too long, a revolution comes in 2020 lol break the retail grip hold on cycling post the measures.

Agreed - I didnt see the 'red sea reef mature' kit - just that he said he didnt add livestock per the instructions. It sounds like they recommend at CUC at day 11 and an algae eating fish on day 14 - which probably wouldn't change 'the cycle'

 

[3jhudak]

Thank you all for your welcomes and replies. As far as I know, the Red Sea kit contains everything I need to fully cycle the tank. It has bottles of bacteria, and feed along with a KH buffer. I will run my test kit on a fresh batch of saltwater to find the zero points. I am currently using API test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, calc, phosphate, and alk. I assume other kits may be more accurate considering the price. Do the test kits lose accuracy with age, as the ammonia test I am using I bought ~1 year ago.

 

[brandon429]

the change of water/redose to the very first color indication of change will still work on that tester. it might wind up as hard yellow= zero or slight green/classic .25 being equal to zero but the full water change is a known zero ammonia starting point. cant wait to see data for sure ill use it in future works even if it disconfirms my guess.

after zero calibration/clean water we'd add only the amount of ammonium chloride equal to about 1/2 to 1 ppm, part of getting decent api reads is not overloading the measure.

https://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm

that calc lets you dose for 1 ppm even without a tester, so cool. after that math, how your ammonia tester reads for 1 ppm can be calibrated for accuracy in pics as well

needs % strength of ammonia and volume of water, account for rock and sand displacement in estimate.

 

[brandon429]

right now this thread is helping another person see that they can simply begin reefing. so can this tank

update when something living is in the tank

 

[MnFish1]

right now this thread is helping another person see that they can simply begin reefing. so can this tank

update when something living is in the tank

Here is something I dont understand - even if 'something living' was put into the tank - what would it prove? I mean - To me the definition of 'a cycled tank' isn't ONLY whether something living can be put in - it's that lots of living things can be put in without any injury to 'the living things'. By the way - I tend to think you're right - that the tank is cycled . Just not sure that putting a 'living thing' in will prove it. (people used to cycle tanks using merely 'fish'

 

[brandon429]

excellent post. I think no five people would agree on what even constitutes a completed cycle, four will be awaiting API allowances to stamp it.

My own view of a closed cycle is twofold: can support a typical entry level bioload and *can withstand a full water change* meaning all manner of normal tank care cannot undo the ability to keep initial bioloading alive. that's my particular pref and we can use those repeating assessments to do lots of consistent work...

 

[brandon429]

wrong thread mis post edit

 

[3jhudak]

So yesterday I took some water into my LFS and he confirmed my ammonia was reading 1ppm and to keep waiting for the full cycle to complete. I have not done anything to the tank in a week outside of replenishing evaporation loss, and my parameters have not really changed the past few days. Should I wait it out as the LFS suggests, or is there a point at which to act otherwise? My tank is looking really good with my new lights installed and all this waiting really blows! (Don't mind the cloudiness, my powerhead fell a bit and kicked up some sand)

 

[brandon429]

nobody assessed your ammonia using seneye, no cycles take this long, you have no continued source for ammonia. No seneye reading would confirm anything stated here. we have thousands of misread tests to reference online already, this isn't different because they measured using inaccurate testers/ non digital

Using a product with excellent reviews, red sea cycling, you didn't just happen on the one set of bad bottles plus a bag of wet inert sand. You were given ways to calibrate an ammonia test and gain proof, post 13. If you ran post 13 and it didn't move down, you'd have proof, but it's been skipped. So many confounds exist in wastewater testing, one use of prime renders all testing void, for example.

The lfs could have been brought a clean water sample to test, that would read differently

All false stuck cycle claims are titration tests, on wastewater, and zero are digital readings.
I'll back out of thread will watch it for test allowance timeframes using non digital ammonia gear. that's helpful data by itself

 

[brandon429]

add some clean up crew members for starting proof.