Is pH buffer the same as Kalkwasser?

  • Thread starter Thread starter srusso
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users None

srusso

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Messages
189
Reaction score
162
Location
Connecticut
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just as the title says, I hear many people discuss their top off and seem to use the term "buffer" and others say kalkwasser, etc. Are these technically one of the same thing? Or are there differences that should be noted by noobs like me? Thanks in advance.
 
Just as the title says, I hear many people discuss their top off and seem to use the term "buffer" and others say kalkwasser, etc. Are these technically one of the same thing? Or are there differences that should be noted by noobs like me? Thanks in advance.

Kalkwasser is Calcium Hydroxide, whereas most pH buffers (To raise pH) are sodium bicarbonate.

Kalkwasser is supposed to maintain primarily calcium, I believe. I don't use it myself yet as I haven't needed it!

I've never used pH buffer, as I have never had low pH. My understanding is most people with reef aquariums don't, as typically the sand/rock will buffer your pH to reasonable levels, and being way under is rare.
 
Kalkwasser is ideal for dosing calcium and raising or maintaining pH levels. As for alkalinity, the use of baked baking soda is ideal. Kalkwasser doesn’t do anything for alkalinity stability and has a very high pH level of 12.4. Care must be used when dosing Kalkwasser, to not add it too fast or raise it too quickly. Doing so will elevate your calcium and pH levels while dropping your alkalinity level as calcium and alkalinity work in opposing directions of one another.
It is best to dose Kalkwasser at night when the lights are off and pH levels are at their lowest in your tank.
Don’t forget about testing for magnesium as well, to ensure that it is roughly 3 times that of your calcium level. Magnesium aids in maintaining the right combination of calcium and alkalinity. It is beneficial to the excellerated growth stony corals as well as calcareous algae. Moreover, magnesium slows down the formation of calcium carbonate which tends to absorb trace elements from your water.
 
Kalkwasser is a mixture of calcium hydroxide and water. Its very high ph. Ph buffer is sodium carbonate and is low ph.

Kalkwasser will maintain alkalinity and calcium.
 
Ok, given that Kalk has a saturation point in water freshwater, and if I use kalk in my top off. Could I have a situation if my tanks demands for top off water exceed the demand for kalk? Then making my KH or Ca too high?

In other words, is it more of finding the amount of kalk for your own tank?
 
Ok, given that Kalk has a saturation point in water freshwater, and if I use kalk in my top off. Could I have a situation if my tanks demands for top off water exceed the demand for kalk? Then making my KH or Ca too high?

In other words, is it more of finding the amount of kalk for your own tank?
For sure. Right now, if I supplied saturated kalk to my tank as all top off, my alkalinity would be sky high. So my choices for kalk were to deliver under saturated kalk or supply some saturated and the rest rodi water. I am doing second route. Also, kalk will supply both calcium and alkalinity (buffer) to your tank. If you are delivering through ato, just slowly ramp the amount until you achieve desired alkalinity.
 
For sure. Right now, if I supplied saturated kalk to my tank as all top off, my alkalinity would be sky high. So my choices for kalk were to deliver under saturated kalk or supply some saturated and the rest rodi water. I am doing second route. Also, kalk will supply both calcium and alkalinity (buffer) to your tank. If you are delivering through ato, just slowly ramp the amount until you achieve desired alkalinity.

I was thinking the same. I am deciding how I will dose this tank. I was thinking of getting a double headed doser and one for RO and the other a saturated solution. Dose one based on pH and the other as an ATO?
 
I was thinking the same. I am deciding how I will dose this tank. I was thinking of getting a double headed doser and one for RO and the other a saturated solution. Dose one based on pH and the other as an ATO?
Agree, but dose kalk to control alkalinity, not pH. Your pH will fluctuate daily with carbon dioxide uptake and even with amount of carbon dioxide in your home. Target alkalinity between 8 and 9 dKH and your good to go.
 
Ok, given that Kalk has a saturation point in water freshwater, and if I use kalk in my top off. Could I have a situation if my tanks demands for top off water exceed the demand for kalk? Then making my KH or Ca too high?

In other words, is it more of finding the amount of kalk for your own tank?

Yes, you need to adjust the amount in the top off water to match the alk demand (not calcium or pH).

You can accomplish the same thing with a two part using hydroxide as the alk part, but that is DIY.
 
Ok, given that Kalk has a saturation point in water freshwater, and if I use kalk in my top off. Could I have a situation if my tanks demands for top off water exceed the demand for kalk? Then making my KH or Ca too high?

In other words, is it more of finding the amount of kalk for your own tank?
I used kalk in my top off.... tested after a week. Calcium was 540 and dkh was 12.4. I took it out and now run a three part doser. It’s easier to make tiny adjustments and because it doses the same time every day, I feel the system stays more stable.
 
I have been testing and tracking my results. I have an Apex so having real-time pH results is helping here. (Also just calibrated)

I have been dosing 35ml of saturated kalk recorded before and after 15 mins pH. Also testing KH, are the last two days.

Oxygen/CO2 is balanced from surface movement. Proven by CO2 scrubber and outdoor pH test.
20181026_135557.jpeg
20181027_130634.jpeg
 
I have been testing and tracking my results. I have an Apex so having real-time pH results is helping here. (Also just calibrated)

I have been dosing 35ml of saturated kalk recorded before and after 15 mins pH. Also testing KH, are the last two days.

Oxygen/CO2 is balanced from surface movement. Proven by CO2 scrubber and outdoor pH test.
20181026_135557.jpeg
20181027_130634.jpeg
What size system was this in? I've been trying to find a good number to use in my calculations for X pH increase per ml dosed per gallon of system volume.
 
Unfortunately it's not that simple. In a reef system (or seawater in general), the pH is governed by the carbonate ion concentration (alkalinity) and the CO2 in the atmosphere that the system is in equilibrium with. While you can look these numbers up, they're somewhat meaningless for our purposes since most folks don't have an easy way to measure the carbon dioxide concentration in their home.

Adding kalkwasser (calcium hydroxide solution) causes a temporary bump to the pH of the water until more CO2 dissolves and brings the pH back down. That's assuming that the alkalinity of the system stays constant - i.e., the carbonate/bicarbonate ions in the water are being consumed by the calcifying animals and/or abiotic precipitation with calcium to form calcium carbonate. That's typically the case for a system with a fair number of corals that are growing, since kalkwasser is fairly dilute when it comes to calcium and alkalinity. Specifically, 1.7 grams per liter will dissolve in pure water at 20 degrees celsius, which is around 1/4 of a teaspoon of kalk powder. In contrast, the alkalinity part of a 2-part dosing solution is far, far more concentrated - typical values are around 78 grams of sodium bicarbonate per liter. Granted, some of that 1.7 g/L of calcium hydroxide that will dissolve in pure water is calcium and some of the 78 g/L of the sodium bicarbonate in the 2-part solution is sodium, but you can see that 2-part is far more concentrated.

So the bottom line here is that in a reef with growing calcifying organisms, it's quite tough to keep up with the alkalinity demand of the system solely by dosing kalkwasser to make up for evaporation, so most will dose it either by saturating the ATO water, monitoring the alkalinity and making up for the deficit with 2-part dosing, or they'll dose kalkwasser with a dosing pump at some fraction of their expected evaporation, and make up for the rest of the alkalinity demand with 2-part solution. That last method is preferred, since one doesn't have the variation in alkalinity dosing that comes with varying evaporation rates. However, in the absence of a dosing pump, and for reefers that test alkalinity of the tank water often, just using saturated kalkwasser as evaporation make-up is a decent, if more laborious, strategy.
 
Thanks @Dkeller_nc I do happen to know my home CO2 level is currently 609 ppm right near my tank and it fluctuated between 483-778 ppm over the past 24 hours, but I understand that's not typically known. :) As for the numbers I was trying to get, I currently dose 2 part to maintain alk and calc. This is working fine for me and my current pH is between 8 and 8.15 daily. I don't want to switch to kalk for maintaining alk/calc purposes or add kalk to my ATO. My plan is to use a dosing pump and an Avast Marine K1 Kalk Stirrer to add a defined amount of saturated limewater to my system throughout the day. The intent of this would be to raise my pH a bit. I know my levels are good and my corals are growing but I thought I could get my pH up a bit higher. I would leave my ATO on and it just won't need to add as much freshwater as it does today since I have another dosing pump that will be adding the saturated limewater. I know my evaporation is about 4250 ml daily so I would keep my limewater addition far below that. My 2 part dosing would be adjusted as it will have less to make up after the kalk is added. My thought is that by keeping the kalk addition constant and separate from my ATO, that alk/calc gained from that will be constant and my 2 part addition can be adjusted to keep the alk/calc in the tank stable. I know that with a higher pH my daily alk/calc demand should increase so the 2 part dosing volumes could even increase along with the addition of kalk but I don't know that yet. Here's my numbers so far and perhaps someone has some of these answers:

System Volume: 60 gallons
Current Daily Alk Demand: 0.96 dKH
Average Daily Evaporation: 1.15 Gallons
Daily pH Swing: 8.0-8.15
What volume of saturated limewater would I need to dose to raise pH swing to 8.2-8.35 (or 8.4)
Is this volume less than 1.15 gallons?

I believe 1.5 liters of saturated limewater daily will raise my dKH 0.83 so I'd like to stay at or below 1.5 liters of limewater added daily.
What pH increase would I get from 1.5 liters of limewater on a constant drip into my system?

Are these things that I just need to find out by turning on the kalk drip at a rate of 1.5 liters per day and manually dosing 2 part until the 2 part dosing amount is known and I can adjust my 2 part dosing pumps? Apologies for hijacking the thread but it is over four months old.
 
I honestly don't know whether you'll achieve your goal or not with that amount of kalkwasser. I suppose one could figure that out with equilibrium charts of that concentration of CO2 and an assumption of X alkalinity as all-carbonate in freshwater, but I'm not sure that data is actually published for seawater (perhaps Randy would know). The kicker here is that the pH boost from adding kalkwasser is going to be temporary until the tank water "catches up" with the equilibrium CO2, assuming the alkalinity remains stable. However, since you're going to be dosing it constantly, it's hard to say whether the equilibrium gas exchange would be so much faster that it would/wouldn't make any difference. To be honest, the effect that is probably going to be the most "bang for your buck" is piping in fresh air to your skimmer, which can be done with a 1/4" diameter polyethylene RODI tubing, although something along the lines of a 3/4" PVC pipe would be better to ensure that you're not getting significant head pressure for the skimmer pump to work against.
 
I honestly don't know whether you'll achieve your goal or not with that amount of kalkwasser. I suppose one could figure that out with equilibrium charts of that concentration of CO2 and an assumption of X alkalinity as all-carbonate in freshwater, but I'm not sure that data is actually published for seawater (perhaps Randy would know). The kicker here is that the pH boost from adding kalkwasser is going to be temporary until the tank water "catches up" with the equilibrium CO2, assuming the alkalinity remains stable. However, since you're going to be dosing it constantly, it's hard to say whether the equilibrium gas exchange would be so much faster that it would/wouldn't make any difference. To be honest, the effect that is probably going to be the most "bang for your buck" is piping in fresh air to your skimmer, which can be done with a 1/4" diameter polyethylene RODI tubing, although something along the lines of a 3/4" PVC pipe would be better to ensure that you're not getting significant head pressure for the skimmer pump to work against.
Thanks for this! I already have fresh air coming in through 5/8 inch vinyl tubing through a co2 scrubber to my skimmer. My pH used to get up to 8.3 so I'll take a look at the status of my scrubber media and abandon the kalk idea. Thanks again!
 
Don't get me wrong - many reefers like kalkwasser for multiple reasons, and it's entirely possible that you will see a pH boost, because you're adding it continuously and the water may never come to equilibrium. It's just that I can't say for certainty. One aspect of it is that you're unlikely to do something bad to your tank from trying it, since you already know that there might be an effect on the alkalinity and know how to test/adjust for it.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top