Is there a Replacement for API Furan-2 in the trifecta treatment
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vetteguy53081
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Seachem TriSulfa is comparable and some European outlets have similar meds such as API Erythromycin/Furan-2.
Acriflavine is next safest
dmsc2fs
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MnFish1
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Just for everyone else benefit - what is ' the trifecta treatment' - and how effective it at doing 'what it does'. Because I have a feeling there is some confusion in the tread - are you asking for a specific medication to replace 'one ingredient in the trifecta' or an antibiotic regimen that would replace the 'trifecta'
lbunney
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I was asking for a replacement for the one product API Furan-2 since it’s no longer made. It was part of an antibiotic treatment that was called the trifecta treatment. Which was on a different post on this site. It includes:
Metronizole (Ex: Seachem Metroplex)
Nitrofurazone / Nifurpirinal (Ex: API Furan-2)
Kanamycin Phosphate (Ex: Seachem Kanaplex)
If there is a better broad spectrum treatment that covers everything please let me know.
Malcontent
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Is this for fish or...?
Metronidazole only works on anaerobic bacteria so its use as an antibacterial in the hobby is pretty much non-existent.
Nitrofurans aren't absorbed from the water which pretty much precludes their use in freshwater fish. Might work in saltwater though...
Metronidazole only works on anaerobic bacteria so its use as an antibacterial in the hobby is pretty much non-existent.
Nitrofurans aren't absorbed from the water which pretty much precludes their use in freshwater fish. Might work in saltwater though...
MnFish1
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As someone else said - Nitrofurazone and doxycycline. The second answer - what other broad spectrum treatment that covers 'everything' - is a bad choice in 2024 - where antibiotic resistance is an issue. Generally speaking a single choice, such as kanamycin, or maracyn depending on the reason would be better.
Malcontent
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Metronidazole - not effective on aerobic bacteria so basically not effective ever. Save it for Spironucleus/Hexamita.
Kanaplex - under-dosed 20-25-fold. Seachem has no explanation. Not absorbed orally.
Nitrofurans - not absorbed from water. Saltwater fish may be able to drink it
Erythromycin - same as above. Also a primarily Gram positive spectrum.
These are the most often recommended choices for freshwater fish but are among the worst. Fish pharmacology is nuanced and there is a lot of bad information out there.
If you do your own research you'll find studies have identified the most common bacteria to infect fish. You narrow down the ~900 antibiotics out there based on that. Then you further narrow them down based on studies that tell you which ones are absorbed from the water and which are not.
I use ciprofloxacin for freshwater fish and trimethoprim if I suspect Columnaris. I often combine the two since trimethoprim is much cheaper and doesn't add much to the per treatment cost. Not surprisingly, these are the same antibotics fish vets use.
I've had antibiotics in food work once in over twenty years. I still try because it saves a lot of time, effort, and money but usually I end up treating in a hospital tank. I have a recipe for low-pH, soft water remineralized from RO water that I use in all hospital tanks. Absorption of many drugs is enhanced in this type of water and the low pH keeps ammonia from becoming toxic.
Kanaplex - under-dosed 20-25-fold. Seachem has no explanation. Not absorbed orally.
Nitrofurans - not absorbed from water. Saltwater fish may be able to drink it
Erythromycin - same as above. Also a primarily Gram positive spectrum.
These are the most often recommended choices for freshwater fish but are among the worst. Fish pharmacology is nuanced and there is a lot of bad information out there.
If you do your own research you'll find studies have identified the most common bacteria to infect fish. You narrow down the ~900 antibiotics out there based on that. Then you further narrow them down based on studies that tell you which ones are absorbed from the water and which are not.
I use ciprofloxacin for freshwater fish and trimethoprim if I suspect Columnaris. I often combine the two since trimethoprim is much cheaper and doesn't add much to the per treatment cost. Not surprisingly, these are the same antibotics fish vets use.
I've had antibiotics in food work once in over twenty years. I still try because it saves a lot of time, effort, and money but usually I end up treating in a hospital tank. I have a recipe for low-pH, soft water remineralized from RO water that I use in all hospital tanks. Absorption of many drugs is enhanced in this type of water and the low pH keeps ammonia from becoming toxic.
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Malcontent
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lbunney
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I can’t find just trimethoprim I found this is it the right thing?
Fish Sulfa Forte l Antibiotic Sulfamethoxazole/Trimethoprim - SMZ-TMP 960mg | Medi-Vet
Thomas Labs Fish Sulfa Forte (Sulfamethoxazole / Trimethoprin, SMZ-TMP 960mg) exerts a bactericidal action on gram-negative bacteria. It is effective against a number of pathogentic bacteria associated with ornamental aquarium fish.
www.medi-vet.com
Thank you for your help. I’m just looking for the broadest spectrum treatment I can get.
Malcontent
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I can’t find just trimethoprim I found this is it the right thing?
On this bottle it says to do a water partial water change before the 2nd treatment. But if you’re using these together do you want to do that? I need to treat my whole tank is this combo safe for plants, snails or shrimp? Does it kill the good bacteria? Should I pull out my bio media for the 10 days like this days? https://reefgoods.com/products/cipr...nTtmzlUn_Zh7OM86J4HgoGWKn8sAIjNi0nFUx1eRZ0ZuzFish Sulfa Forte l Antibiotic Sulfamethoxazole/Trimethoprim - SMZ-TMP 960mg | Medi-Vet
Thomas Labs Fish Sulfa Forte (Sulfamethoxazole / Trimethoprin, SMZ-TMP 960mg) exerts a bactericidal action on gram-negative bacteria. It is effective against a number of pathogentic bacteria associated with ornamental aquarium fish.www.medi-vet.com
Thank you for your help. I’m just looking for the broadest spectrum treatment I can get.
Yes, trimethoprim is almost always combined with a sulfa drugs as far as I've seen. At least one study found that it's mostly the trimethoprim that's doing the heavy lifting.
If you live in the US, I buy my fish meds from calvetsupply but I haven't purchased in awhile so shop around.
If that supply dries up you likely can still find enrofloxacin (same family as ciprofloxacin) and probably TMP as well in powdered form for pigeon use. You'd need a scale and have to do some math though.
Most of the people buying "fish" and "bird" antibiotics are preppers and manufacturers know that. They just made up the dosing instructions for fish so I'd ignore them... I dose two 500 mg tablets of ciprofloxacin and/or one tablet of TMP-S per 10 gal and change water every day to every 3rd day depending on the bioload. If the fish starts to recover I may reduce the water changes and/or start offering medicated food.
lbunney
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Thank you for that info.
Do you just do 1 dose of the above amount? Or every day for how many days?
I need to treat my whole tank is this combo safe for plants, snails or shrimp?
Does it kill the good bacteria?
Should I pull out my bio media? If so, for how long?
Malcontent
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You shouldn't treat the whole tank. The goal isn't to "get rid of the bacteria," which is nearly impossible. The bacteria will always be there. All fish are constantly being exposed but their immune systems prevent serious infection. Some fish are infected and their lives are at risk. Those are the fish that need to be treated. The antibiotics kill the bacteria or slow/freeze bacterial reproduction so the immune system, once losing, wins the battle. This restores peaceful coexistence between the bacteria and the immune system. You can't get rid of the bacteria because it only takes one to survive and resume exponential growth via binary fission. Invariably, some survive or are reintroduced.
Treating the entire tank's water will wreck the biofilter if you use effective antibiotics at effective doses. It's also very expensive to treat that much water at the correct doses. The only treatment you could give in a display tank is medicated food. If you have a large number of symptomatic fish that can't all be moved to hospital tanks then this might be your only option. The other scenario is if you have a few individuals with mild symptoms (I'm dealing with this now). If you have a few individuals with serious infections then a hospital tank is the best option. This is the most common scenario since widespread population-wide infections are rare and medicated food rarely ever works.
