Randy Holmes-Farley
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Thanks for the input, Stigigemla. 
Is there new evidence to support dosing trace elements?
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Randy Holmes-Farley
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I'm not certain I understand the exact question, but yes, those products contain trace elements, especially the Reef Plus.
Sallstrom
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I kind of think the other way around. I like to mimic NSW as much as possible. So IMO it's more of an experiment not to maintain those parameters we can measure and adjust (I know the ICP test is not perfect for all parameters).
I'm sure not all of them matters to corals, but since no one really knows I like to be on the safe side
/ David
I'm sure not all of them matters to corals, but since no one really knows I like to be on the safe side
/ David
Randy Holmes-Farley
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I kind of think the other way around. I like to mimic NSW as much as possible. So IMO it's more of an experiment not to maintain those parameters we can measure and adjust (I know the ICP test is not perfect for all parameters).
I'm sure not all of them matters to corals, but since no one really knows I like to be on the safe side
I don't disagree with that, at least with respect to elements known to be useful to some organism, but the bigger question comes when folks are not measuring by ICP (or cannot because ICP can't test low enough). What to do then?
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I have been spending the last few years researching trace element use in SPS. I have found that trace elements can make a big difference in coral health. But finding that most over the counter supplements are not up to the task at hand.
Sallstrom
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I don't disagree with that, at least with respect to elements known to be useful to some organism, but the bigger question comes when folks are not measuring by ICP (or cannot because ICP can't test low enough). What to do then?
Yep, that's something else. And I understand that there is a economic side of it as well.
Iron for example I like to add some every day. I doesn't show any on our ICP test, but at least I know I add some. And in some cases I think it looks like corals or macroalgae do better after I've started with Fe dosing. And the ICP test tells me if I'm overdosing. But that's is just my way of doing it
/ David
Randy Holmes-Farley
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Yep, that's something else. And I understand that there is a economic side of it as well.
Iron for example I like to add some every day. I doesn't show any on our ICP test, but at least I know I add some. And in some cases I think it looks like corals or macroalgae do better after I've started with Fe dosing. And the ICP test tells me if I'm overdosing. But that's is just my way of doing it
/ David
I agree, that's a fine way to proceed with iron and anything else too low to show by ICP (at least if one assumes it cannot become toxic below the ICP detection limit, which is certainly true for iron).
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Do you have a hypothesis of why not?
Stigigemla
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In my opinion the largest problems with trace elements is that you get them so many ways.
You have supplements for the Balling method and that shall normally be enough. But Amino acid product X promises better color so wy not try that too.
But when you check the fine printing it contains several trace elements too. My shrooms need color too. Another product.
And maybe you add the Red Sea Colors too. And in that way we make problems.
I believe to test a trace element combination you need at least half a year. And only one product serie.
You have supplements for the Balling method and that shall normally be enough. But Amino acid product X promises better color so wy not try that too.
But when you check the fine printing it contains several trace elements too. My shrooms need color too. Another product.
And maybe you add the Red Sea Colors too. And in that way we make problems.
I believe to test a trace element combination you need at least half a year. And only one product serie.
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I don't think they have the correct ratio's and proper trace elements really found the off the shelf stuff to be useless really. Most people really don't have the set up to do trace elements correctly requires several dosing heads so that you can automate it. Having started with Zeovit years ago the dropper bottle stuff just doesn't give you consistent daily dosing as humans are involved. An it takes several months to see an effect that most people don't have time to see and they might be switching so much variables around Lighting flow and water changes that it would be hard for them to pin down. I have automated the dosing and lock down everything else to see the effects. But then I am interested in corals and their health. An learning is what the hobby is to me. After being in the hobby for 54 years now. I want to know the hard stuff as the easy stuff which is hard for most is not hard any more.
Stigigemla
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Zeovit will be much simplier the day they publish what is in the bottles.
A positive thing about trace elements is that it is not so sensitive about max and minimum dose.
But it easy to overdose anyway especially if you use several brands.
Now with the IPS tests we have seen some remarkable values without problems in the tank.
Molybden and Aluminia is often many times over the natural value. Maybe (probably) the corals are much more sensitive against over dosing other trace elements.
A positive thing about trace elements is that it is not so sensitive about max and minimum dose.
But it easy to overdose anyway especially if you use several brands.
Now with the IPS tests we have seen some remarkable values without problems in the tank.
Molybden and Aluminia is often many times over the natural value. Maybe (probably) the corals are much more sensitive against over dosing other trace elements.
drawman
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My take is that trace element dosing should be fun for those that really like to experiment and any perceived benefits would probably be more noticeable with colors of certain SPS. In these terms, I think it will be tough to get past anecdotal evidence. It would be fun to see someone run a controlled experiment with two identical tanks then dose an individual supplement to one tank to see the effect on color and growth and then have it repeated...wishful thinking on my part.
Overall I agree with Randy. Now when you're wading through the anecdotal evidence (increased coloration, growth, health, etc) I think it is important to understand that some of these perceived benefits may be due to a number of factors other than the trace dosing, not limited to tank maturity, corals further acclimated to the system, stability of doing major elements, overall skill of the reefer. So is it really the trace element that's making things look better and grow faster? That said, I like the idea of dosing trace elements for fun and do feel that there is a benefit to certain SPS in terms of color (how much definitely can be debated). I think lighting plays a more important role, however. Some trace elements (ie copper) I am very leery of dosing haphazardly even if colors improve.
You can see gorgeous SPS tanks with beautiful colors on both sides of the spectrum so that tells me that dosing does not have a huge benefit. FWIW, I do not currently dose trace elements and just maintain the big 3. If I were to experiment, it would be for the goal of maintaining Strontium, Potassium, and Iodine.
Overall I agree with Randy. Now when you're wading through the anecdotal evidence (increased coloration, growth, health, etc) I think it is important to understand that some of these perceived benefits may be due to a number of factors other than the trace dosing, not limited to tank maturity, corals further acclimated to the system, stability of doing major elements, overall skill of the reefer. So is it really the trace element that's making things look better and grow faster? That said, I like the idea of dosing trace elements for fun and do feel that there is a benefit to certain SPS in terms of color (how much definitely can be debated). I think lighting plays a more important role, however. Some trace elements (ie copper) I am very leery of dosing haphazardly even if colors improve.
You can see gorgeous SPS tanks with beautiful colors on both sides of the spectrum so that tells me that dosing does not have a huge benefit. FWIW, I do not currently dose trace elements and just maintain the big 3
. If I were to experiment, it would be for the goal of maintaining Strontium, Potassium, and Iodine.
