Is this biofilm?

[Acros]

I have been seeing these ugly looking sheets in my tank since yesterday. I am having a bacteria bloom. It might be a biofilm from the bacteria. Anyone seen this in their tank?

My corals are all ticked since my last water change. I did a 20% water change and I have no idea what changed. I had a light outage for 5 days before the water change and the bacteria bloom. My parameters are below:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: not detectable.
pH: 7.8
Alk: 10.2 (it was 10.1 before the water change).
Calcium: 492 (it was 450 before water change).
Phosphate: 0.05 (it was 0.09 before water change).
Tank is a 29g and 3 months old.

Edit: I had all my torchus snails (6) die after the water change. That might be the source of ammonia.

 

[Timfish]

I would say yes it looks to be a thin film of mucus and bacteria. But typically biofilms are on surfaces ont floating free in the water. My guess is the problem started before the lights were off for 5 days then there was some slowed growth or dieoff occured whith the lights off that let the film peel off whatever surface it was on. It looks to me like you set up your system with just dry rock and bacteria and it's still in the beginning stages of maturing. It seems to me a safe assumption even if it's not visible some of whatever is in that film has landed on the corals and may have effected the corals holobiont and oxygen levels in the surface boundary layer. What I would do is get 5 or 10 gallons of water from an mature and "healthy" reef system and do a water change with that and or try to find a piece or two of maricultured live rock with some cryptic sponges to help the maturing process along. When I do the water change I would very carefully siphon water from immediately around the corals to try to reduce any of the bacteria film that may have landed on them.

 

[Acros]

I would say yes it looks to be a thin film of mucus and bacteria. But typically biofilms are on surfaces ont floating free in the water. My guess is the problem started before the lights were off for 5 days then there was some slowed growth or dieoff occured whith the lights off that let the film peel off whatever surface it was on. It looks to me like you set up your system with just dry rock and bacteria and it's still in the beginning stages of maturing. It seems to me a safe assumption even if it's not visible some of whatever is in that film has landed on the corals and may have effected the corals holobiont and oxygen levels in the surface boundary layer. What I would do is get 5 or 10 gallons of water from an mature and "healthy" reef system and do a water change with that and or try to find a piece or two of maricultured live rock with some cryptic sponges to help the maturing process along. When I do the water change I would very carefully siphon water from immediately around the corals to try to reduce any of the bacteria film that may have landed on them.

I started the tank with live rock. 10lbs caribsea life rock form an LFS and 15lbs live rock from a fellow reefer. I do agree that my tank is not mature. I have killed all acros I tried to introduce to the tank. My all other SPS is dead now, except for a cyphastrea.

There was a die out where all my torchus snails (6) died right after the water change. I updated the original post with this. I moved around the rocks as well to rescape during the water change.

Should I try to remove that biofilm?

 

[brandon429]

everything is brown...

Are you using API Test (Notorious kit for measuring ammonia wrong and high.)? Is the water cloudy at all? Ammonia tends to cause bacteria blooms that cloud water. Never heard of a clown doing this. If all the fish are at the surface aerate the tank and yes, add bacteria. @brandon429 may want...

www.reef2reef.com

try a cleaning to that degree, it’s safe to run and leaves a clean tank

it helps prevent other types of uglies that appear in dry rock starts, and is harmless to run. the reason I recommended it was ease of getting 29 gallons of new water, it’s hard for 50+ to run

i noticed the lights have no blues which won’t affect the film but drives green algae on rocks, are those reef lights or stock lights for a reef setup

 

[ge4rhead]

how old is the tank? if your doing your cycle, i wouldnt think you should have anything in it yet. let the cycle happen, give it time and then make sure the ammonia is good

 

[Acros]

how old is the tank? if your doing your cycle, i wouldnt think you should have anything in it yet. let the cycle happen, give it time and then make sure the ammonia is good

My tank is 3 months old. The nitrogen cycle was completed long back. Haven’t seen a spike in any of that in 2.5 months.

 

[Acros]

everything is brown...

Are you using API Test (Notorious kit for measuring ammonia wrong and high.)? Is the water cloudy at all? Ammonia tends to cause bacteria blooms that cloud water. Never heard of a clown doing this. If all the fish are at the surface aerate the tank and yes, add bacteria. @brandon429 may want...

www.reef2reef.com

try a cleaning to that degree, it’s safe to run and leaves a clean tank

it helps prevent other types of uglies that appear in dry rock starts, and is harmless to run. the reason I recommended it was ease of getting 29 gallons of new water, it’s hard for 50+ to run

i noticed the lights have no blues which won’t affect the film but drives green algae on rocks, are those reef lights or stock lights for a reef setup

It is so interesting that moving around rocks could cause clouding. That is exactly what I did.

 

[brandon429]

your challenge for the white film bacterial mats is undiagnosed and not very well beaten in reefing.

I truly do not know what that is, the usual clouding we get from moving rocks and sand is waste detritus that settles back down, that whispy long matting is truly a ? in reefing. last week in the chem forum they've been working a huge tank for weeks and weeks trying different things, his tank is too big to rip clean and a 29 gallon isn't. from post #1 in that thread to last post these common approaches stand out in order and shown in pics there: full takedown cleaning and bed is rinsed for a very very long time until it is 1000% clear, final rinse is in RO water, then sand is ready to put back.

rocks are cleaned off externally, rinsed in saltwater and bac mats rubbed off. spritz some peroxide across the rocks to kill the algae and the mats, hopefully. it wont hurt the filter bac.
rinse off your treated rocks in saltwater externally, only saltwater for rocks and now they're clean.

re assemble cloudless tank, clean rocks, cloudless sand, with 100% new water matching temp and salinity of the prior wastewater. sparkling clean reef.

 

[92Miata]

Have you figured out why your water change killed all your snails?

 

[brandon429]

Nice call, make sure all source water is reef worthy.



you have a way to deal with the invasion in reverse: not directly at the invasion, but via the entire system cleaned, leaving the invasion nothing its adapted to.
if it doesnt work, then no harm you've got a clean tank to work with going fwd.


dont be dosing any additive whatsoever as you start this new reef, you wont need dosers for a long time, until coralline is spotting all the rocks

only water changes weekly, and reef feed, and no other additives from a bottle or a powder for a few months till this is beaten. make sure lights run full blue not white

 

[Timfish]

I started the tank with live rock. 10lbs caribsea life rock form an LFS and 15lbs live rock from a fellow reefer. I do agree that my tank is not mature. I have killed all acros I tried to introduce to the tank. My all other SPS is dead now, except for a cyphastrea.

There was a die out where all my torchus snails (6) died right after the water change. I updated the original post with this. I moved around the rocks as well to rescape during the water change.

Should I try to remove that biofilm?

Just FYI but there are huge differences in live rock. See Aquabiomics article here Even though I have access to lots of aquarium maintained/cultured live rock I always set up a new system with maricultured live rock to get a range of the cryptic sponges needed for a healthy reef ecosystem. I'm a big fan of CaribSea products but their life rock is just dry rock with bacteria added. I wouldn't do more than 30% water change but definitely siphon out any film and I would siphon out carefully around teh corals just to be sure to remove any of the bacteria or microbial stuff that's landed on them. I don't know why the trochus snails died but that they ate something toxic in the bacteria/microbial films can't be easily ruled out.

 

[Acros]

Sorry of the delay, I got pulled into a meeting.

NO, I could not figure out why the snails died. I know 2 of them died as they got trapped under the rock for a few hours. There is no explanation for the others. All my bumblebee snail are doing fine, so are my fish (one was stressed, but looking better now) and the 2 blue legged hermit crabs. I did not see the crabs attach the snails either.

I tested Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates using API test kit and couldn't see any shift in those parameters. I use Hanna checkers for Alk, Calcium, and Phosphate.

I use RODI water, I have a RO buddie. The DI cartridge is still good.

How can I test the RODI water to make sure it is reef worthy?

 

[Acros]

Just FYI but there are huge differences in live rock. See Aquabiomics article here Even though I have access to lots of aquarium maintained/cultured live rock I always set up a new system with maricultured live rock to get a range of the cryptic sponges needed for a healthy reef ecosystem. I'm a big fan of CaribSea products but their life rock is just dry rock with bacteria added. I wouldn't do more than 30% water change but definitely siphon out any film and I would siphon out carefully around teh corals just to be sure to remove any of the bacteria or microbial stuff that's landed on them. I don't know why the trochus snails died but that they ate something toxic in the bacteria/microbial films can't be easily ruled out.

I think there is some merit to think that the snails ate something toxic. I found one of them dead on the rock. Others were on the sand bed.

 

[Acros]

Just FYI but there are huge differences in live rock. See Aquabiomics article here Even though I have access to lots of aquarium maintained/cultured live rock I always set up a new system with maricultured live rock to get a range of the cryptic sponges needed for a healthy reef ecosystem. I'm a big fan of CaribSea products but their life rock is just dry rock with bacteria added. I wouldn't do more than 30% water change but definitely siphon out any film and I would siphon out carefully around teh corals just to be sure to remove any of the bacteria or microbial stuff that's landed on them. I don't know why the trochus snails died but that they ate something toxic in the bacteria/microbial films can't be easily ruled out.

Is there a bacteria pack/additive I could use to achieve the same results? I will try to source some cultured rock.

 

[brandon429]

@Dan_P

Hey aren't these challenges always such a test, I can't find unifying patterns in them at all


When the funk decides to appear things get funky, best diagnostic so far I'm thinking

someone with a band, name it funk vector.

 

[uhgster1]

From my experience, starting with dry rock you will see this type of activity for about 6 months on and off until the rock gets established. Another biggie that most people don't think about is aerosol usage in or around the room where the aquarium is. Scented candles are also notorious for the blooms. it's just a patience game really.

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P

Hey aren't these challenges always such a test, I can't find unifying patterns in them at all


When the funk decides to appear things get funky, best diagnostic so far I'm thinking

someone with a band, name it funk vector.

@taricha, check out what appears to be A bacteria slime, but it seems too perfect and thick to be just any old slime. It is quite beautiful.

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P

Hey aren't these challenges always such a test, I can't find unifying patterns in them at all


When the funk decides to appear things get funky, best diagnostic so far I'm thinking

someone with a band, name it funk vector.

Not convinced yet that this a bacterial film. Let’s go to work.

The sheet looks like it originates from back around the rock or under it. Let’s get the back end of this thing exposed. Can it be easily removed from its attachment point? What does it feel like? Does it tear easily or is it more living tissue?

 

[Acros]

It does tear easily. I was able to siphon out 90% of the film today. It comes out without any resistance.

It is thicker today than yesterday. Yesterday a smaller film floated towards the powerhead. The current from the powerhead shredded it. The ones I saw today in the tank were tougher.

My girlfriend will look at it through a microscope tomorrow, to confirm it is bacteria.

 

[Acros]

I did a 30% water change and my corals are looking a lot happier. The euphyllia is expanding again. Mushrooms have opened.

I believe the biofilm grew on the rock. I hope not to see any biofilm in the tank tomorrow morning.