Is this Dinoflagellates or cyano

GlassCityReefer

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I have this brownish copperish colored film on my sandbox. It doesn’t string up like dinoflagellates and it isn’t the bright red I usually get when cyano tears it’s ugly head. My last parameter check was alk. 8.3
PO4 .27
Nitrate 0
Sorry just hate the color of the sand Ed. It hasn’t gotten worse and it doesn’t get better with water changes weekly. Any advice will help!
It is in a Nuvo 20 gallon and I have a Tunze 6040 and a Tunze 6045 providing flow along with a skimmer and a small refugium running with a Chaetomax light.
The little spots in the second picture move.

865D1493-5B8C-4333-8F2A-226B546AF364.jpeg


F1F3E6B0-9BA8-4EAC-B266-7B3149663722.png
 
Save yourself the ID hassle, rip clean the whole tank at once into no invasion we have 20 page threads of this being done with far trickier reefs, a 20 takes two hours to fully uninvade

You just take the take apart clean it and put it back together with no invader. Safer for your corals vs the sustained months long nutrient and med changes
 
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

that took us going on six years to make, my offer is to take half an hour and read it not counting the linked examples. if you want to truly research what instant fixing is then consider the linked examples which trail off into other threads that are repeatedly about:
-how you take apart a nano and clean the sand out 100% and clean the rocks externally with saltwater, then put it all back together without clouding so that nothing recycles
-we never acted partially there, it was all about taking apart the entire tank and you've got it easy at 20 gallons. 100+ was the real work we show.
-if you act now before it progresses, you have about an 80% chance that one pass fixes it. worst case scenario, you clean again next month and you've spent a whole 40 gallons on the process (not much $ or time or work)

its not that 10 other dosers and meds and nitrate and phosphate adjustments wont work, its that they might not, and this always does. we show it right there in patterns, who is repeatedly posting about cyano coming back, or dinos? since we know how to take apart and deep clean a tank, its not hard to apply that and curb off invasions that would otherwise run weeks and months with constant parameter guessing and adjusting going on, corals slowly bleaching out etc...

also see this thread:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...ll-rework-skip-cycle-reassembly.525310/page-5


really good tank surgery there.
 
While tearing it apart and cleaning will likely help I fear it will just happen again if you don't get your nutrients in order as well. Give the thread I linked a look.
 
agreed, that's why the sole reason we take it apart is to decloud the whole sandbed and rocks from waste. nothing adjust nutrients better than a rip clean, be sure and check the two threads posted, we're not churning out repeat offenders they're all corrected. so while it may seem like an imperfect method, as the options grow here we really have results in place now for post analysis for the simple hand cleaning aspect.

its not possible to correctly balance nutrients in a system where a display sandbed has filthy clouding in it (but it is possible to define the lower param and dose for it constantly, or try and suppress the high param while the waste stays... we find this less ideal so we never recommend it)

on this particular tank, the initial non rinsing of the sand presents really fine silt for complexing with detritus- add in some bright production lighting and a little mulm / cyano are already naturally part of the environment anyway=temp bloom. *if its dinos, the spots look like them, this still works. Try and find noncompliant tanks in our example.

to remove all the clouding will fix the issue and leave the tank pristinely reset, the next invasion will have less food as well. *adjust your n and p after the big clean if you want, leaving the silt and detritus is not required for any form of battling. there's no form of invasion control where dumping in a handful of detritus into the tank will help=removing the detritus here is not interfering with any future control plans.
 
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here's the exact steps for this tank above, crazy as it sounds on paper consider the # of tanks and the $ we have running it. I bet its over a hundred grand in reefs in that top thread no joke:

catch your fish and shimp and hold somewhere in drained off tank water.

set the rocks and corals into another holding sw bucket of new water doesn't have to be tank they're not going to die.

now you have a tank, yucky sand, and water. take it all apart and rinse it all out, wipe the tank walls down, clean it throw out all the water.

*take this sandbed and rinse it in tap water until it doesn't cloud. then rinse it ten mins longer bc you stopped rinsing early out of concern that you are breaking Thor's law of sand handling and are about to get a hammer through the roof. keep rinsing :) we use tap first, then saltwater, for specific reasons and if it was harmful or not applied 100x above Id not be recommending it here.

when your sand is this clean, *rinse it in saltwater a bunch to evacuate*
(this is a sandbed from a 14 yr old nano reef, all my corals and rocks are laying out on the counter in the air)

-take each rock and shake them about inside a filled bucket of clean sw, to eject out all the pent up waste/clouding that is in there, and food for the next invader should you not opt for manual cleaning. shake and wash those rocks using saltwater only, evacuate this mud. work around the corals they'll be fine its all saltwater. your goal is to have zero cloud in the sand, and zero cloud from within the rocks.

then you reset up your whole tank and nothing clouds. use all new water, acclimate your fish and shrimp back in and if the temp and salinity matches you don't have to acclimate them, just put them back.

every example on the pages is this above being repeated in some way.
 
Thank you very much, I read through all the posts it is phenomenal, and definitely am going to do it! I was considering getting new sand and rinsing it since mine does blow around a little or if you think the tank could handle being bare bottom by just sucking out all the sand?
 
You have enough live rock to carry any bioload it currently has, the sand is in excess. I still like the look of sand in my tank so I always put some back, agreed, pre rinse it no matter what you get. Rinsed pure, then put it in back around the cleaned rocks... however we dislodged the detritus from their pores is fine by me but we use saltwater there so that live rock benthic animals are rinsed only in saltwater, the live rock is the filter not the sand, which is why you’re free to replace it all with rinsed sand, all at once. Working in increments is more dangerous than just doing it, strange but that’s how the thread works. We’d so enjoy seeing your documented work

* you have a dual purpose deep clean here and I’ll say why: in the nuisance algae forum, the big linked dinos thread up top, best I know of, they actually don’t get a lot of entrants willing to just clean/force the tank clean, they work mainly by altering nitrate and phosphate levels to target goals, ceasing water changes, and adding competing organisms, it’s fair to say they’re opposite of how I work but this is good science for both to see. Both methods want to simply know what it takes to beat dinos, so once we see how the initial cleaning does then both sides can factor the physical element into the mix, upon re looking at that pic it does look like confirmed dinos and they’ll know better in that other thread as well.

The neat part of rip cleaning is it’s applicable to any tank without harm, whether or not it stops a target in one pass is a pure luxury to strive for. It usually does

If it doesn’t, then you’ll wind up with a rip cleaned cloudless perfection tank that has dinos, and with that clean palette any number of N and P adjustments can still be undertaken. If you are willing to clean detritus and be mindful of it upon reassembling the tank, then you can rip clean the aquarium six thousand times, as I have my reefbowl, and it will get better not worse. Few invaders beat our rip cleaning, the thread shows. If yours does, then in the dinos thread they’ll be interested to see the strain and amounts/re amassing rates from this type who can beat a full rip cleaning, you’ll be dealing with a very strong species they’ll enjoy trying to compete out. Done right, a rip cleaning doesn’t hurt an invaded tank nor a perfectly fine tank.

The last three times I took my own 13 yr old nano reef apart in that thread there was nothing wrong with it, I sat the whole system out in the air for a half an hour, but in all my plannings we used holding water :) I’m willing to do this to my own reef upon demand, I’d get up and tap rinse my own sandbed right now in the worlds most delicate pico reef lol rip cleans aren’t scary.

*no full production lighting the next day, ramp up, cloudy week simulation

The mega clean reef is more reflective in every direction, lower those whites as that’s the coral stress and not the cleaning event. Ramp back up to full production slowly pls take pics as others want to see. This is reef tank surgery, big deal. it’s the new way of arresting invaders relative to the size of the aquarium and not any other factors. If someone has a nano, then they have a fully accessible aquarium and if the theory holds correctly no invader can beat creative human access and direct war. If you can access an invader, you can beat it without knowing it’s species and you can beat it without measuring or altering the tanks parameters, the parameters that currently grow coral just fine. You have a great chance with this method whether it’s dinos or cyano either way.
B
 
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Awesome, I think I may try to keep the sandbed if for no other reason just for personal experience, totally excited to try! Thank you so much for documenting this way of cleaning up the tank!
 

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