Is this ich on my clown(s)?

mje113 · Jun 14, 2022

Ok, so my tank is well past cycled but still pretty new. The two clowns that have been happy and eating well for a few weeks are still going strong, however the one that was never a voracious eater didn't eat at all today so I looked closer and noticed the dreaded white spots.

But I also noticed little white spots all over my glass that are moving really rapidly. They are the same size as what's on the clown, not sure if they are related or not but I didn't think ich was visible to the naked eye.

I just went and took the dog for a walk and when I got back (30 min) I'm now seeing spots on the other clown that definitely weren't there when I left. Hoping for the best but I need to know if I should setup a hospital tank first thing in the morning?

vetteguy53081 · Jun 14, 2022

Looks like brooklynella. The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

Jay Hemdal · Jun 14, 2022

mje113 said:
Ok, so my tank is well past cycled but still pretty new. The two clowns that have been happy and eating well for a few weeks are still going strong, however the one that was never a voracious eater didn't eat at all today so I looked closer and noticed the dreaded white spots.

But I also noticed little white spots all over my glass that are moving really rapidly. They are the same size as what's on the clown, not sure if they are related or not but I didn't think ich was visible to the naked eye.

I just went and took the dog for a walk and when I got back (30 min) I'm now seeing spots on the other clown that definitely weren't there when I left. Hoping for the best but I need to know if I should setup a hospital tank first thing in the morning?

I’m seeing more signs of Cryptocaryon, marine ich, than Brooklynella, especially in the first photo. However, some unlucky fish can have both infections at once - and darn it, they need different treatments!
Can you post a video? Sometimes that works better for getting a good diagnosis.
Jay

mje113 · Jun 14, 2022

Yes, will do first thing in the AM as it's in the kids room and it's lights out. Thanks for helping, I'm willing to go out and get another tank in the morning to save them. Also not sure what I need for a hospital tank.

mje113 · Jun 15, 2022

It's so hard to get him in focus so not sure if this video is sufficient. If not I can try again.

it looks like fewer spots this morning but his swim pattern looks different (I know he's a clown), and he didn't touch rocks but looked like he tried to scratch once.

Video

Jay Hemdal · Jun 15, 2022

mje113 said:
It's so hard to get him in focus so not sure if this video is sufficient. If not I can try again.

it looks like fewer spots this morning but his swim pattern looks different (I know he's a clown), and he didn't touch rocks but looked like he tried to scratch once.

Video

Thanks - that helps. Brooklynella seems the most likely issue here. Formalin or Ruby Reef Rally Pro, as said would be the way to go here, but you'll need to get something started today. A 5 minute FW dip *might* buy you some time.

Jay

mje113 · Jun 15, 2022

What's the likelyhood either of these would be available at LFS or petco?

also I know I need to isolate after dip, is a 5g tank too small for the 2 clowns? I really don't want to have to make the space for a 10...

Jay Hemdal · Jun 15, 2022

mje113 said:
What's the likelyhood either of these would be available at LFS or petco?

also I know I need to isolate after dip, is a 5g tank too small for the 2 clowns? I really don't want to have to make the space for a 10...

Formalin won't be available in stores, you would have to order it (and it is dangerous to use). Ruby Reef is stocked by some stores, but call around first.

You could keep the clowns in a 5, but managing the ammonia level in a brand new tank is tricky.

Jay

mje113 · Jun 15, 2022

Jay Hemdal said:
You could keep the clowns in a 5, but managing the ammonia level in a brand new tank is tricky.

I first was considering moving some bio material (ceramic things in my nano's sump) to the new tank... but of course that could bring parasites with it I suppose. Could I dip the bio material in Ruby Reef first to make it safe to use?

I don't mind doing really frequent water changes short term...

Assuming I can find Ruby Reef when the LFS opens in a few, can someone let me know if this course of action is on the right track? I've never setup a QT before:

Buy:
5g tank
HOB filter that has room for some bio material
Heater
air pump and air stone
Cheap small light
Ammonia badge
Some sort of Ammonia control if I can't keep on top of it with WCs
Ruby Red Pro

Already making RO/DI, I should have 5g within a couple hours

Setup tank, mix salt
Should I dose the tank with some sort of live bacteria?
I can get pre-mix water at the LFS that claims it has live bacteria, is that better?

Treat/dip both fish (I assume if one has it I should treat both?)
If I can't get the Ruby Reef today I'll try a FW dip

Put in QT tank and treat with copper

mje113 · Jun 15, 2022

Yay! LFS has Ruby Reef Rally Pro and the kit that includes Kick Ich.

One follow up question... what's the chances they can be saved? I really don't want to lose them as they're the kid's and attached, so I hate to say this, but adding up how much $ this will be vs. replacing them in the future makes me wonder if it's worth it if there's a low chance of survival.

Jay Hemdal · Jun 15, 2022

mje113 said:
I first was considering moving some bio material (ceramic things in my nano's sump) to the new tank... but of course that could bring parasites with it I suppose. Could I dip the bio material in Ruby Reef first to make it safe to use?

I don't mind doing really frequent water changes short term...

Assuming I can find Ruby Reef when the LFS opens in a few, can someone let me know if this course of action is on the right track? I've never setup a QT before:

Buy:
5g tank
HOB filter that has room for some bio material
Heater
air pump and air stone
Cheap small light
Ammonia badge
Some sort of Ammonia control if I can't keep on top of it with WCs
Ruby Red Pro

Already making RO/DI, I should have 5g within a couple hours

Setup tank, mix salt
Should I dose the tank with some sort of live bacteria?
I can get pre-mix water at the LFS that claims it has live bacteria, is that better?

Treat/dip both fish (I assume if one has it I should treat both?)
If I can't get the Ruby Reef today I'll try a FW dip

Put in QT tank and treat with copper

Since you are moving (sick) fish over, it is perfectly fine to move biomedia as well - that will not carry anything over that the fish haven't already done!

Premix water from a store has very little bacteria in it, most beneficial bacteria lives on surfaces. You could augment things with bacteria in a bottle like Dr. Tim's or Fritzyme.

Make sure both tanks have the same salinity and temperature and then dip and move the fish.

Jay

mje113 · Jun 15, 2022

One final question before I execute. Do I need to dip or can I just treat the QT tank with Ruby as the directions on the bottle instruct? I don't care if the water is orange. Also can I double that up with copper?