Is this ich or Lympho?

[anthony1222]

I noticed my cbb suddenly got white spots over his tail and mouth. I’ve had him for 3 days now and it eats frozen and doesn’t act sick but does twitch his head sometimes. What could this be?

 

[MnFish1]

The spots seem to small for lympho, however the distribution is different than ich, etc. Can you send a picture under white light - the blue makes it extremely difficult to see completely. Did you QT the fish, treat with anything - any other symptoms?

 

[anthony1222]

The spots seem to small for lympho, however the distribution is different than ich, etc. Can you send a picture under white light - the blue makes it extremely difficult to see completely. Did you QT the fish, treat with anything - any other symptoms?

The only strange thing I see with the copperband is shaking his head sometimes but that’s it. I didn’t qt the fish or treat with anything but I do have prazi on hand

 

[vetteguy53081]

I noticed my cbb suddenly got white spots over his tail and mouth. I’ve had him for 3 days now and it eats frozen and doesn’t act sick but does twitch his head sometimes. What could this be?

Looks like a skin irritation opposed to Lympho although a couple of the spots may be lympho. Both would point to water quality issue as well as insufficient diet
What is your ammonia and nitrate level ?
How do other fish in tank (if any) look and are behaving as far as swimming, skin, etc?

As for shaking its head, what is the frequency and is it at eating time?

A 20-30 sec video under white light intensity may be of more help

 

[MnFish1]

I'm going to suggest you start a quarantine for the fish with copper (nothing is needed for lymph) the spots on the tail look more like Ich to me. The head shaking (I can't see the video) - can suggest other things like flukes, etc

 

[anthony1222]

Looks like a skin irritation opposed to Lympho although a couple of the spots may be lympho. Both would point to water quality issue as well as insufficient diet
What is your ammonia and nitrate level ?
How do other fish in tank (if any) look and are behaving as far as swimming, skin, etc?

As for shaking its head, what is the frequency and is it at eating time?

A 20-30 sec video under white light intensity may be of more help

In terms of diet I feed mysis shrimp and I’m gonna get some clams for my cbb soon. It does eat quite a bit so it’s not too skinny or anything. I get my water from my lfs so it’s probably not very good quality. My nitrates are 25-50 and my phosphates are probably way high. I’m getting a lot of algae growth as I tend to over feed and don’t have a lot of nutrient export except a protein skimmer. I’m planning on adding a refugium soon. The cbb shakes his head at random times cause I don’t have a consistent feeding schedule. My other fish look fine but the fox face has some heavy breathing so im planning on dosing prazi in a few days until my cbb can get a little more used to my tank .

 

[anthony1222]

I'm going to suggest you start a quarantine for the fish with copper (nothing is needed for lymph) the spots on the tail look more like Ich to me. The head shaking (I can't see the video) - can suggest other things like flukes, etc

I have an extra tank lying around but my only concern is catching the fish.

 

[MnFish1]

I would have it set up incase you need it

 

[vetteguy53081]

In terms of diet I feed mysis shrimp and I’m gonna get some clams for my cbb soon. It does eat quite a bit so it’s not too skinny or anything. I get my water from my lfs so it’s probably not very good quality. My nitrates are 25-50 and my phosphates are probably way high. I’m getting a lot of algae growth as I tend to over feed and don’t have a lot of nutrient export except a protein skimmer. I’m planning on adding a refugium soon. The cbb shakes his head at random times cause I don’t have a consistent feeding schedule. My other fish look fine but the fox face has some heavy breathing so im planning on dosing prazi in a few days until my cbb can get a little more used to my tank .

Mysis will not cut it and can cause excess mucus in stomach lining. Some good foods to add are:
LRS Herbivore diet
Massticks which is hit and miss with these guys
small plankton
Hikari clam on the half shell
Formula 2 frozen

Add selcon vitamins to the foods occasionally

 

[anthony1222]

Mysis will not cut it and can cause excess mucus in stomach lining. Some good foods to add are:
LRS Herbivore diet
Massticks which is hit and miss with these guys
small plankton
Hikari clam on the half shell
Formula 2 frozen

Add selcon vitamins to the foods occasionally

Wouldn’t the herbivore diet not be ideal for the copperband since it’s a carnivore?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Wouldn’t the herbivore diet not be ideal for the copperband since it’s a carnivore?

This was the first food mine ate now at age 5+ and at 6" and it contains many meats and CBB does eat the algae in the pack. I have many CBB owners using this food and they say the same- Their CBB eats it aggressively

LRS Herbivore Frenzy® ingredients:
Fresh Wild Caught Scallop
Fresh Wild Caught, Hand Peeled Shrimp
Fresh, Wild Caught Perch and Whitefish
Premium Piscine Energetics Mysis Shrimp
Squid
Euphausia pacifica krill
Fresh Shucked Oysters and Clams
Green and Purple Seaweed (Porphyra)
Blanched Broccoli Flowers (Rich in Vitamins A&D)
Sea Lettuce (Ulva)
Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids
Buffered Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C to delay oxidation)
D. salina micro-algae (Beta carotene for increased pigmentation)
LRS Probiotic Blend

 

[anthony1222]

This was the first food mine ate now at age 5+ and at 6" and it contains many meats and CBB does eat the algae in the pack. I have many CBB owners using this food and they say the same- Their CBB eats it aggressively

LRS Herbivore Frenzy® ingredients:
Fresh Wild Caught Scallop
Fresh Wild Caught, Hand Peeled Shrimp
Fresh, Wild Caught Perch and Whitefish
Premium Piscine Energetics Mysis Shrimp
Squid
Euphausia pacifica krill
Fresh Shucked Oysters and Clams
Green and Purple Seaweed (Porphyra)
Blanched Broccoli Flowers (Rich in Vitamins A&D)
Sea Lettuce (Ulva)
Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids
Buffered Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C to delay oxidation)
D. salina micro-algae (Beta carotene for increased pigmentation)
LRS Probiotic Blendi

I just fed it Lrs herbivore and plankton. The copperband and other fish loved the lrs herbivore but ignored the plankton. Since the copperband is eating, could it be lympho?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just fed it Lrs herbivore and plankton. The copperband and other fish loved the lrs herbivore but ignored the plankton. Since the copperband is eating, could it be lympho?

Im not convinced on Lymphocystis, but you have brought up diet- perfect the water and if Lympho, will improve and fall off on its own.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I noticed my cbb suddenly got white spots over his tail and mouth. I’ve had him for 3 days now and it eats frozen and doesn’t act sick but does twitch his head sometimes. What could this be?

This looks like ich to me. Small White spots on the clear portions of the fins usually means ich. This species often gets lymphocystis, but those spots would be fewer and larger in size.

Jay

 

[anthony1222]

This looks like ich to me. Small White spots on the clear portions of the fins usually means ich. This species often gets lymphocystis, but those spots would be fewer and larger in size.

Jay

Yea it might be ich. The number of spots on his mouth are decreasing. I’m scared it might crash my tank.. Will it go away on its own with proper feeding and vitamins? I don’t want to have a fish less tank for 76 days as I’m in the process of getting my tank ready for corals. And 76 days without fish in a 2 month old tank sucks. Also can’t think of a way to catch my fish and put into qt as my aquascape has lots of nooks and crannies.

Disease management is my least favorite part of this hobby as a beginner

 

[KrisReef]

I

Yea it might be ich. The number of spots on his mouth are decreasing. I’m scared it might crash my tank.. Will it go away on its own with proper feeding and vitamins? I don’t want to have a fish less tank for 76 days as I’m in the process of getting my tank ready for corals. And 76 days without fish in an 2 month old tank sucks. Also can’t think of a way to catch my fish and put into qt as my aquascape has lots of nooks and crannies.

Disease management is my least favorite part of this hobby as a beginner

If you have a UV lying around they can help with reducing water borne parasites (Presuming the flow through the UV is proper and the bulb is working properly.)

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yea it might be ich. The number of spots on his mouth are decreasing. I’m scared it might crash my tank.. Will it go away on its own with proper feeding and vitamins? I don’t want to have a fish less tank for 76 days as I’m in the process of getting my tank ready for corals. And 76 days without fish in a 2 month old tank sucks. Also can’t think of a way to catch my fish and put into qt as my aquascape has lots of nooks and crannies.

Disease management is my least favorite part of this hobby as a beginner

In looking at your video - do you have many/any invertebrates in there? If you can move those out, you can run hyposalinity on the whole tank and the time frame would be about 45 days.

You can try ich management, but it often doesn't work:

Starting Ich Management during an active infection only works if the number of trophonts on the fish is below a certain number. Above that number and the trophonts themselves become stressors and the parasite gains a foothold, despite your attempts to manage it. So what is that number? It depends on too many variables - but I start to expect Ich Management to fail if the number of spots on any one fish is above 30 or so.

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Jay

 

[anthony1222]

In looking at your video - do you have many/any invertebrates in there? If you can move those out, you can run hyposalinity on the whole tank and the time frame would be about 45 days.

You can try ich management, but it often doesn't work:

Starting Ich Management during an active infection only works if the number of trophonts on the fish is below a certain number. Above that number and the trophonts themselves become stressors and the parasite gains a foothold, despite your attempts to manage it. So what is that number? It depends on too many variables - but I start to expect Ich Management to fail if the number of spots on any one fish is above 30 or so.

Here is my protocol for ich management. Please understand that I am NOT presenting this as an optimum method for controlling ich, just putting it out there for people who want to try it. Also, do not pick and choose which items you want to follow - you need to go with all guns blazing and use them all.

“Ich Management” Because many aquarists mix fish and invertebrates, they are ill-prepared to then treat for marine ich, as the two best treatments, amine-based copper or hyposalinity, cannot be used with invertebrates. A popular technique has then arisen, “ich management”. It is popular not because it works well, but because it is an easier alternative. Be forewarned, it often fails if applied during moderate infections. The reason that it exists as a technique at all is because people find themselves in situations like this and are desperate to try anything.

The basic idea is to reduce the infective propagules (tomites) of the ich parasite to the point where the fish's acquired immunity can fight the infection off. This is done through a series of techniques for stress reduction and tomite limiting. Unfortunately, the ich tomites themselves cause stress to the fish, so if the fish have more than 30 or so trophonts on them, the method often fails.

1) Install a powerful UV sterilizer on the aquarium.
2) Ensure that the fish's diet and water quality are the best you can make them.
3) Keep the water temperature close to 78 degrees F.
4) Siphon off the tank floor nightly to remove as many tomonts as possible.
5) Employ strong filtration to trap as many tomites as possible.
6) Try a proprietary "reef safe" marine ich medication. These rarely cure ich infections on their own, but some may have benefit when combined with other management methods. Avoid the herbal remedies, focus on those that contain peroxide salts. There is, however, some evidence that using peroxides with UV does not work, as the UV can break down the peroxides.

Jay

I have 2 cleaner shrimp and a conch. As for the UV, I’m saving money for a tunze fuge light so I can lower my phosphates. Should I just get the UV first instead of the light? Or get the light and get the uv a little later? I’m not 100% sure If I have the space to have both though. I have an rsk 600 protein skimmer in my reefer 350 system. For water quality what do you mean? Ammonia? Nitrate and Phosphate? I get my water from the lfs instead of an rodi unit if that’s what you mean.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I have 2 cleaner shrimp and a conch. As for the UV, I’m saving money for a tunze fuge light so I can lower my phosphates. Should I just get the UV first instead of the light? Or get the light and get the uv a little later? I’m not 100% sure If I have the space to have both though. I have an rsk 600 protein skimmer in my reefer 350 system. For water quality what do you mean? Ammonia? Nitrate and Phosphate? I get my water from the lfs instead of an rodi unit if that’s what you mean.

the problem with ich management is that you cannot pick and choose which of the methods you employ, for it to have any real chance of working, you need to go in with all guns blazing - that means buying a strong UV. Personally, I'd just move the shrimp an conch out to a small ten gallon tank and run hyposalinity. More effective and less expesnive.

jay

 

[anthony1222]

the problem with ich management is that you cannot pick and choose which of the methods you employ, for it to have any real chance of working, you need to go in with all guns blazing - that means buying a strong UV. Personally, I'd just move the shrimp an conch out to a small ten gallon tank and run hyposalinity. More effective and less expesnive.

jay

Will hypo salinity stress out the fish or harm them? Also would it affect copepods and bacteria and stuff