Is this ich?

Tikosyn · Sep 30, 2018

So I just added two bellus angels to my display after 2 weeks of QT observation and prazi pro. All of the sudden I am seeing white specs on their fins, what is this? Please don’t say velvet.

HotRocks · Sep 30, 2018

Can you upload pics in full white light?

It's looking more like velvet from what I can see.

Any behavioral symptoms? Scratching, flashing, swimming into the flow of a powerhead?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-difference-between-ich-velvet.315957/

Tikosyn · Sep 30, 2018

HotRocks said:
Can you upload pics in full white light?

It's looking more like velvet from what I can see.

Any bahavioral symptoms? Scratching, flashing, swimming into the flow of a powerhead?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-difference-between-ich-velvet.315957/

No behavioral symptoms, swimming around but somewhat slowly. Wow I can’t believe this. I’m going to lose everything.

HotRocks · Sep 30, 2018

Tikosyn said:
No behavioral symptoms, swimming around but somewhat slowly. Wow I can’t believe this. I’m going to lose everything.

You can probably get through it with little to no loss as it's in the early stages.

How large is your QT? Do you have any additional spare tanks?

Tikosyn · Sep 30, 2018

I have a 20 gal QT. I going to try and remove the two that are showing symptoms and do a freshwater dip then put them in QT

cracker · Sep 30, 2018

good plan !

Tikosyn · Sep 30, 2018

The fish in question have been in the tank for 48 hours or less

Big G · Sep 30, 2018

Freshwater dip and then a bath in Ruby Reef Rally or another acriflavine product greatly increases survival rates. The antiseptic and antibiotic qualities of RRR helps with many insertion points of the parasites so the fish's immune system can fight off bacterial infections.
from @Humblefish
The short version:

5 minute freshwater dip
Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:

Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)

After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.

Tikosyn · Sep 30, 2018

Got the male bellus out, did a FW dip then put him in QT and followed directions to get therapeutic level of copper but he has been in a cave since adding him breathing heavily and not swimming, I don't expect to him to last through the night. I could not for the life of me catch the other fish. It will die in the tank I suppose. The rest of my fish I suppose are dead too. I cannot drain 200 gallons of water and move out 175 lbs of rock. Wow, WHY DID I USE A VENDOR I DON'T NORMALLY USE?! EVERYTHING WAS GOING SO WELL NOW I AM GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING. I seriously hate this hobby after only 6 months. I have to watch all my fish die one by one, this is excruciating.

HotRocks · Sep 30, 2018

Tikosyn said:
Got the male bellus out, did a FW dip then put him in QT and followed directions to get therapeutic level of copper but he has been in a cave since adding him breathing heavily and not swimming, I don't expect to him to last through the night. I could not for the life of me catch the other fish. It will die in the tank I suppose. The rest of my fish I suppose are dead too. I cannot drain 200 gallons of water and move out 175 lbs of rock. Wow, WHY DID I USE A VENDOR I DON'T NORMALLY USE?! EVERYTHING WAS GOING SO WELL NOW I AM GOING TO LOSE EVERYTHING. I seriously hate this hobby after only 6 months. I have to watch all my fish die one by one, this is excruciating.

It can be done. It's stressful I know. You don't have to drain the entire tank.

Get some Rubbermaid containers. Place them on the floor near the tank. Siphon water into them. As the rock is being exposed. Move it to the bins. Once the rock is out then you can catch the fish.

Yes it's a couple hour project. It's early enough in the game you can probably save all fish.

What copper are you using?

joe0813 · Sep 30, 2018

Going through this right now ... Lost a powder brown and a royal Gramma. But if I can do this so can't you. Just keep at it do what you need to do and treat the remaining fish

Tikosyn · Sep 30, 2018

I just don't have the time to do all this, I know it sounds crazy but I am a father of two, I work 40 hours a week and so does my wife and my kids are 3 and less than 2. They won't let me go to the bathroom alone let alone drain a tank and disassemble rock structures. What are the chances fish can survive once velvet is in the tank?

Big G · Sep 30, 2018

Tikosyn said:
What are the chances fish can survive once velvet is in the tank?

The Velvet parasites increase in number almost exponentially with each generation overwhelming the fish's immune system.
What fish are left in the tank?

JumboShrimp · Sep 30, 2018

As you create as much of a ‘low tide’ as you can by using as many pails / containers / buckets as you can to siphon your water out into, don’t overlook the fact that your rockwork might start to work to your advantage. Many passageways will become dead-ends; others can start to be block by nets, sheets of plastic or pieces of glass—anything you can use as dividers to cut off escape routes for your fish. I have used gallon jugs (weighted with water) to cut off escape routes for the fish. My point is, what seems like a virtual impossibility (netting fish with rocks in the tank) when the water is high, can become vastly easier with only 3, 6, even 8 inches of water left.

JumboShrimp · Sep 30, 2018

As you create as much of a ‘low tide’ as you can by using as many pails / containers / buckets as you can to siphon your water out into, don’t overlook the fact that your rockwork might start to work to your advantage. Many passageways will become dead-ends; others can start to be block by nets, sheets of plastic or pieces of glass—anything you can use as dividers to cut off escape routes for your fish. I have used gallon jugs (weighted with water) to cut off escape routes for the fish. My point is, what seems like a virtual impossibility (netting fish with rocks in the tank) when the water is high, can become vastly easier with only 3, 6, even 8 inches of water left.

HotRocks · Sep 30, 2018

Tikosyn said:
I just don't have the time to do all this, I know it sounds crazy but I am a father of two, I work 40 hours a week and so does my wife and my kids are 3 and less than 2. They won't let me go to the bathroom alone let alone drain a tank and disassemble rock structures. What are the chances fish can survive once velvet is in the tank?

You are preaching to the choir. 2+4 year old daughters here. I understand. I work 70 hours a week. I always wait till they are in bed. Then go to work on tanks.

Long term survival with velvet is not likely unfortunately. Velvet multiplies rapidly. Starting as soon as 12-24hrs after it hits the tank.

HotRocks · Sep 30, 2018

JumboShrimp said:
As you create as much of a ‘low tide’ as you can by using as many pails / containers / buckets as you can to siphon your water out into, don’t overlook the fact that your rockwork might start to work to your advantage. Many passageways will become dead-ends; others can start to be block by nets, sheets of plastic or pieces of glass—anything you can use as dividers to cut off escape routes for your fish. I have used gallon jugs (weighted with water) to cut off escape routes for the fish. My point is, what seems like a virtual impossibility (netting fish with rocks in the tank) when the water is high, can become vastly easier with only 3, 6, even 8 inches of water left.

Great advice. I have helped a friend with this same task on a 180. 1.5-2 hrs start to finish with two guys.

Drained, All the fish in QTs, Everything else back in the tank (not aquascaped)

joe0813 · Sep 30, 2018

+1 I've drained my tank and started blocking off tunnels and caves with pieces of egg crate

GoldeneyeRet · Sep 30, 2018

I wish you good luck during this stressful time. You're in good hands, follow the advice you have been given here.

All I want to add is that your choice of vendor is not to blame for this issue. All fish from any vendor can and usually do carry parasites.

Your mistake was an inadequate quarantine. Live, learn and continue on. This hobby can be a challenge and very frustrating but when you get it right it's worth the headaches.

Wishing you the best!