Is this Ich?

[Les Poissons]

Two recent clownfish additions, two different things going on:

This one came from a big box store and has been in the DT almost 2 weeks. He went through a 2-3 week QT with API General Cure, Metroplex, and observation. No copper as I didn’t have any at the time, and truth is by the time I got it in with a Hanna Checker I was too impatient to go through the process. He seems fine, but has developed two black spots. I’m thinking Hyper-Melanization from the nems or torch:

The other clown was added 4 days ago. It came from a LFS that only carries aquacultured fish, has had them all together for at least two weeks, and has had zero issues with any of them. The fish looked 100% on Friday. I decided to risk it and skip QT. Within 3 days it has what I think is ich:

Can anyone tell me if my diagnosis of each is right?

The fish paired up within 10 minutes with the darker (and smaller) fish showing submissive behavior. No fighting or aggression. Both fish seem comfortable in the tank, mostly hanging in their preferred corner, but swimming around a reasonable amount and eating well.

The background on the tank:

It’s a used Red Sea 170 that I picked up just over a month ago. It was a running system and included the live rock, sand, two yellow watchmen gobies, a cleaner shrimp, a pistol shrimp, a bunch of crabs, a million asterina starfish, some hidden aiptasia, and now I’m thinking it also may have included an ich problem.

There were no signs of illness with the existing residents. I saw a couple of flatworms when moving the tank so I picked up a wrasse. It ended up dying of a bacterial infection within a week, but that seemed related to the individual fish and not necessarily a problem with the tank. No sign of ich with the wrasse.

Now, with the immediate appearance of ich in a fish that shouldn’t have had any previous exposure, I’m thinking ich was already in the tank.

Any suggestions on how to treat? Right now I’m feeding heavy with selcon soaked food, hoping the fish can beat it on its own. I guess I could remove it to a QT, but not sure if that makes a lot of sense without removing the rest of them. Getting all the fish out (particularly the gobies) for a fallow period would be a challenge. Also, my QT is only 10 gallons, so 4 fish in there could be a lot. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Two recent clownfish additions, two different things going on:

This one came from a big box store and has been in the DT almost 2 weeks. He went through a 2-3 week QT with API General Cure, Metroplex, and observation. No copper as I didn’t have any at the time, and truth is by the time I got it in with a Hanna Checker I was too impatient to go through the process. He seems fine, but has developed two black spots. I’m thinking Hyper-Melanization from the nems or torch:

The other clown was added 4 days ago. It came from a LFS that only carries aquacultured fish, has had them all together for at least two weeks, and has had zero issues with any of them. The fish looked 100% on Friday. I decided to risk it and skip QT. Within 3 days it has what I think is ich:

Can anyone tell me if my diagnosis of each is right?

The fish paired up within 10 minutes with the darker (and smaller) fish showing submissive behavior. No fighting or aggression. Both fish seem comfortable in the tank, mostly hanging in their preferred corner, but swimming around a reasonable amount and eating well.

The background on the tank:

It’s a used Red Sea 170 that I picked up just over a month ago. It was a running system and included the live rock, sand, two yellow watchmen gobies, a cleaner shrimp, a pistol shrimp, a bunch of crabs, a million asterina starfish, some hidden aiptasia, and now I’m thinking it also may have included an ich problem.

There were no signs of illness with the existing residents. I saw a couple of flatworms when moving the tank so I picked up a wrasse. It ended up dying of a bacterial infection within a week, but that seemed related to the individual fish and not necessarily a problem with the tank. No sign of ich with the wrasse.

Now, with the immediate appearance of ich in a fish that shouldn’t have had any previous exposure, I’m thinking ich was already in the tank.

Any suggestions on how to treat? Right now I’m feeding heavy with selcon soaked food, hoping the fish can beat it on its own. I guess I could remove it to a QT, but not sure if that makes a lot of sense without removing the rest of them. Getting all the fish out (particularly the gobies) for a fallow period would be a challenge. Also, my QT is only 10 gallons, so 4 fish in there could be a lot. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Its likely brooklynella. The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

 

[Les Poissons]

I don’t have quick access to formalin, so it looks like a FW dip to start. I can get Ruby Rally Pro delivered in a couple days.

I do have API General Cure, Seachem Metroplex, and Seachem Kanapkex on hand. I think I’ve read that General Cure/Metroplex will treat brook as well? Either way, if I put the fish through treatment and reintroduce to DT wouldn’t it be likely to get brook again? Do I need to find a way to get all fish out and go fallow for 6 weeks?

 

[sfin52]

I don’t have quick access to formalin, so it looks like a FW dip to start. I can get Ruby Rally Pro delivered in a couple days.

I do have API General Cure, Seachem Metroplex, and Seachem Kanapkex on hand. I think I’ve read that General Cure/Metroplex will treat brook as well? Either way, if I put the fish through treatment and reintroduce to DT wouldn’t it be likely to get brook again? Do I need to find a way to get all fish out and go fallow for 6 weeks?

I agree with @vetteguy53081 It looks like brook

 

[Les Poissons]

Here are a couple more pics in case they help confirm diagnosis…

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here are a couple more pics in case they help confirm diagnosis…

Seeing mucus on the face, its brooklynella. The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body. The thick mucus on its body is a second sign which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

 

[Les Poissons]

Appreciate the confirmation of Brooklynella.
Back to my other response though, I can’t get formalin quickly. 2 days for Ruby Reef Rally Pro. I do have API General Cure, Seachem Metroplex, and Seachem Kanaplex. Should I just do a FW dip and then treat with metroplex? Do I need to find a way to get all fish into the QT and do a 6 week fallow period in the DT? If I just treat this fish in the QT will it just get Brook again in a couple of weeks? Thanks.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Safety stop has formalin in it. You can probably get it at your LFS.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Here are a couple more pics in case they help confirm diagnosis…

If it is Brooklynella, it is just starting up - see how the clown is holding its fins extended? They usually droop when Brook gets going. Also, they will begin swimming oddly, weaker and kind of "mopey".

Fingers crossed that this is just excess mucus from either bickering with the other clown, or brushing against a coral or anemone.

You should still gear up to treat the Brook though, just to be safe........

Jay

 

[Les Poissons]

If it is Brooklynella, it is just starting up - see how the clown is holding its fins extended? They usually droop when Brook gets going. Also, they will begin swimming oddly, weaker and kind of "mopey".

Fingers crossed that this is just excess mucus from either bickering with the other clown, or brushing against a coral or anemone.

You should still gear up to treat the Brook though, just to be safe........

Jay

Thanks for the input, Jay. I'm setting up a sterile QT right now. A few questions as I'm new to this and also have the complication of a long weekend away from home coming up for a wedding...

- Should I do a FW dip today while I wait for Ruby Reef Rally to arrive tomorrow?
- Should I take a sample from the fish and confirm Brook under a microscope, or is the potential damage from the scraping not worth it?
- If it is Brook, I would need to get all fish out for 6 weeks or they will just get reinfected, right?
- Assuming Brook, after dip using RRR I plan to treat the QT with metroplex for a couple weeks. Does that make sense to be sure I get everything?
- My QT is only 10 gallons. It's my understanding that I can't use any biomedia from the DT sump to help manage ammonia/nitrite, so I'll have to rely on bottled bacteria and water changes while fresh biomedia gets going... Thinking I'll use Microbacter Start XLM to get things going as I can get that today. With 4 fish (two small clowns, two medium watchmen gobies) an I likely able to manage a 3.5 day absence in a week without an ammonia spike? I'll have an auto feeder set up to deliver pellets or I can have someone drop in a small amount of frozen brine a couple of times. I can do a water change right before I leave and I can probably have someone add some more bacteria while I'm gone, but I don't have anyone I can rely on for a water change. I don't want to set this all up jut to have the fish all die while I'm away.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the input, Jay. I'm setting up a sterile QT right now. A few questions as I'm new to this and also have the complication of a long weekend away from home coming up for a wedding...

- Should I do a FW dip today while I wait for Ruby Reef Rally to arrive tomorrow?
- Should I take a sample from the fish and confirm Brook under a microscope, or is the potential damage from the scraping not worth it?
- If it is Brook, I would need to get all fish out for 6 weeks or they will just get reinfected, right?
- Assuming Brook, after dip using RRR I plan to treat the QT with metroplex for a couple weeks. Does that make sense to be sure I get everything?
- My QT is only 10 gallons. It's my understanding that I can't use any biomedia from the DT sump to help manage ammonia/nitrite, so I'll have to rely on bottled bacteria and water changes while fresh biomedia gets going... Thinking I'll use Microbacter Start XLM to get things going as I can get that today. With 4 fish (two small clowns, two medium watchmen gobies) an I likely able to manage a 3.5 day absence in a week without an ammonia spike? I'll have an auto feeder set up to deliver pellets or I can have someone drop in a small amount of frozen brine a couple of times. I can do a water change right before I leave and I can probably have someone add some more bacteria while I'm gone, but I don't have anyone I can rely on for a water change. I don't want to set this all up jut to have the fish all die while I'm away.

Here is what I think:

- Should I do a FW dip today while I wait for Ruby Reef Rally to arrive tomorrow? - Yes, to buy some time.

- Should I take a sample from the fish and confirm Brook under a microscope, or is the potential damage from the scraping not worth it? - Yes, if you are careful, that is what I would do if it were my fish.

- If it is Brook, I would need to get all fish out for 6 weeks or they will just get reinfected, right? - Correct

- Assuming Brook, after dip using RRR I plan to treat the QT with metroplex for a couple weeks. Does that make sense to be sure I get everything? - Formalin is better, but tough to find.

- My QT is only 10 gallons. It's my understanding that I can't use any biomedia from the DT sump to help manage ammonia/nitrite - No, move biomedia over! It doesn't contain anything your fish are not already carrying on their skin. The only thing you need to be wary of is calcium based substrate if you end up using copper at some point,

Jay

 

[Les Poissons]

Here is what I think:

- Should I do a FW dip today while I wait for Ruby Reef Rally to arrive tomorrow? - Yes, to buy some time.

- Should I take a sample from the fish and confirm Brook under a microscope, or is the potential damage from the scraping not worth it? - Yes, if you are careful, that is what I would do if it were my fish.

- If it is Brook, I would need to get all fish out for 6 weeks or they will just get reinfected, right? - Correct

- Assuming Brook, after dip using RRR I plan to treat the QT with metroplex for a couple weeks. Does that make sense to be sure I get everything? - Formalin is better, but tough to find.

- My QT is only 10 gallons. It's my understanding that I can't use any biomedia from the DT sump to help manage ammonia/nitrite - No, move biomedia over! It doesn't contain anything your fish are not already carrying on their skin. The only thing you need to be wary of is calcium based substrate if you end up using copper at some point,

Jay

Thanks again. The only thing I'm not clear on is the biomedia. I was thinking that if I remove the Brook with Ruby Reef Rally then I would want the fish going into QT that doesn't potentially have free swimmers in the water. Or should the metroplex take care of those? I can't get formalin very quickly - about a week.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

You can buy lab grade formalin on Amazon. I just got my shipment. Just fyi b

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks again. The only thing I'm not clear on is the biomedia. I was thinking that if I remove the Brook with Ruby Reef Rally then I would want the fish going into QT that doesn't potentially have free swimmers in the water. Or should the metroplex take care of those? I can't get formalin very quickly - about a week.

Maybe I’m not understanding - if the fish have Brook, they carry the parasite with them when you move them out for treatment. Moving bio media at the same time doesn’t really increase a risk factor….
Jay

 

[Les Poissons]

Maybe I’m not understanding - if the fish have Brook, they carry the parasite with them when you move them out for treatment. Moving bio media at the same time doesn’t really increase a risk factor….
Jay

Right, but I thought a 90 minute Ruby Reef Rally bath would pretty much eliminate Brook on the fish before placing in the QT. I just don’t want to add another source of the parasite if the fish has just been cleared.

Reading through the humble fish forums they suggest a sterile QT. Maybe that’s ideal, but not practical in my case? I don’t want to introduce another source of Brook, but I’m also worried about establishing a bio filter fast enough for things to be stable while I’m away for a few days in a week. Hopefully the metroplex can clean up any small amounts of Brook that may come in with the bio media.