Is this Ich?

[sfin52]

A large stock tank would be good to use as a qt if you have to pull the fish.
Bio media and a few rocks would add beneficial bacteria and make the fish more comfortable.

 

[Tyson]

My thought was to dose general cure in the QT tank with the bristletooth, to treat for possible flukes while still running CU. I'm most concerned about the potters and hippo, if it I can treat the display for flukes with the other fish it would be ideal - and not catch them all.

I'm seeing occasional flashing from the potters and hippo, both also look like their breathing heavy. The potters is a little twitchy. I don't see anything visible on the potters, but its color is definitely faded right now.

The hippo has a few white dots on its front fins, possibly on its body if you catch it at the right angle. I see a few other fish breathing heavier than normal and a several very small white dots on their fins as well.

I'll upload a few pics and videos. It's tough to make it out and dots in the pictures.

 

[Tyson]

Hard to see anything in the pics. You can kind of make out 2-3 dots on the royal gramma’s tail

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hard to see anything in the pics. You can kind of make out 2-3 dots on the royal gramma’s tail

Long term ich looks a lot different than many people realize - you may not see spots at all, just rapid breathing and cloudy skin. The fish in these images don’t have that.
With the rapid breathing pale color and flashing, the go-to diagnosis would be either flukes or velvet. If the latter, the fish wouldn’t be feeding and would look a lot sicker, so I’d say flukes are the best diagnosis. You can treat with prazipro in your DT or general cure in a QT.
Jay

 

[Tyson]

Thanks Jay, that helps a lot. That's what I was thinking. One other question with my timeline. I dealt with what I believe was velvet several years ago, and that seemed like it spread throughout the tank in less than a week.

With the only 2 new additions to the tank put in 30 days ago, that would also point towards flukes, right, and likely not velvet?

I just checked my prazi and it expired in 2019, so I'm hoping to grab some from the LFS tomorrow morning and dose the display.

How soon should I see signs of improvement after I dose with the prazi?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Jay, that helps a lot. That's what I was thinking. One other question with my timeline. I dealt with what I believe was velvet several years ago, and that seemed like it spread throughout the tank in less than a week.

With the only 2 new additions to the tank put in 30 days ago, that would also point towards flukes, right, and likely not velvet?

I just checked my prazi and it expired in 2019, so I'm hoping to grab some from the LFS tomorrow morning and dose the display.

How soon should I see signs of improvement after I dose with the prazi?

Prazi is weird - it can sometimes make the fish flash more and act even more sick for a few days after dosing. You also need to dose a second time, 8 or 9 days later to kill off an new flukes that may have hatched out from eggs in the tank (prazi doesn’t kill fluke eggs).
Jay

 

[Tyson]

I just noticed by black clown flashing a bit and it’s pretty easy to See the speckles on the black areas. I dosed prazi this morning, but could this be velvet? New additions were in 31 days ago, so that seems too long for velvet?

I’ve got a couple fish showing loss of appetite now too.

is it time to tear the tank apart and try to treat all with CU?

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Tyson]

I guess the loss of appetite and them looking a bit rougher could very well be the prazi i dosed a few hours ago. The speckled black clown is still worrying me though.

 

[Tyson]

@MnFish1 or @vetteguy53081

Thoughts on the pics of the clown? Is my safest course of action to catch the fish I can tonight, and get them in a combo of copper and prazi? I just can't tell if this is velvet or flukes. I'd do a freshwater dip as I caught them.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@MnFish1 or @vetteguy53081

Thoughts on the pics of the clown? Is my safest course of action to catch the fish I can tonight, and get them in a combo of copper and prazi? I just can't tell if this is velvet or flukes. I'd do a freshwater dip as I caught them.

Over ich , Loos to me like brooklynella with secondary bacteria. This generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Sorry - I was at the dentist waiting room this afternoon and I see this message didn't send:

Velvet always has an increase in respiration rate, are you seeing that at all?
Black clowns always show mucus so much clearer than other clowns do. I don’t think this is brooklynella, but if it is, copper won’t help.

Jay

 

[Tyson]

No problem, I really appreciate all the replies. Nearly all fish are breathing heavily now, as is the black clown. There’s been a significant increase in flashing too, but maybe due to the first prazi dose earlier today.
I’m seeing more speckles on fins when they catch the light just right. Just saw this on the tail fin of the flame angle

 

[Tyson]

I just tossed in some food and there was a considerably stronger feeding response from just about all fish compared to this morning after the first prazi dose.

Honestly I think all fish just ate readily, even the black clown….

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I just tossed in some food and there was a considerably stronger feeding response from just about all fish compared to this morning after the first prazi dose.

Honestly I think all fish just ate readily, even the black clown….

The angelfish tail is worrisome, flukes won’t look like that. The rapid breathing is also a concern - but then you said the fish are feeding ok…..
I would prepare to run copper if things go south tomorrow.
Jay

 

[Tyson]

Thanks, yeah it's been a bit confusing. I just didn't have a good feeling last night after your response, and with what I was seeing, so decided to tear the tank apart. Made for a rough late night, but got all the fish out with some help from my wife. I did find a carpenter wrasse died as I was pulling out some of my rock. I hadn't seen it yesterday, so pretty sure getting the fish out was the right call.

I prepped a big rubbermaid yesterday afternoon, so was ready just in case.

I performed a 5 min freshwater dip on each fish, got them in the holding tank, and dosed coppersafe up to 2.1ppm. I'll get it up to 2.5ppm this evening when I get back home.

Early this morning, all fish seemed to be doing ok with a quick flashlight check. I had to get into the office today, so hoping things are still ok when I get home.

I'll plan to dose general cure in conjunction with CU. I'm thinking wait until Thursday to dose GC, since the fish all had about 12 hours of exposure to prazipro in the display yesterday? And then another dose of GC on 12/2? Think that's a good plan?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks, yeah it's been a bit confusing. I just didn't have a good feeling last night after your response, and with what I was seeing, so decided to tear the tank apart. Made for a rough late night, but got all the fish out with some help from my wife. I did find a carpenter wrasse died as I was pulling out some of my rock. I hadn't seen it yesterday, so pretty sure getting the fish out was the right call.

I prepped a big rubbermaid yesterday afternoon, so was ready just in case.

I performed a 5 min freshwater dip on each fish, got them in the holding tank, and dosed coppersafe up to 2.1ppm. I'll get it up to 2.5ppm this evening when I get back home.

Early this morning, all fish seemed to be doing ok with a quick flashlight check. I had to get into the office today, so hoping things are still ok when I get home.

I'll plan to dose general cure in conjunction with CU. I'm thinking wait until Thursday to dose GC, since the fish all had about 12 hours of exposure to prazipro in the display yesterday? And then another dose of GC on 12/2? Think that's a good plan?

Just manage the ammonia level in the tub, that’s going to be a challenge. You can use filter material from your DT if you have any.
Jay

 

[Tyson]

I might toss a few smaller pieces of rock in from my DT to help with the ammonia and just pitch them after. Guessing I’ll have to watch copper levels a little closer, think that’ll help?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I might toss a few smaller pieces of rock in from my DT to help with the ammonia and just pitch them after. Guessing I’ll have to watch copper levels a little closer, think that’ll help?

Yes, if you don't have inert filter media to use, that would be the second best option.

Jay

 

[Tyson]

Well, I think I'm out of the woods. I lost a royal gramma the day after I pulled everything out of the DT, but all other fish are now dramatically improved, including my potter. It was a little touch and go last week, breathing got considerably worse, and a few fish stopped eating, so pretty sure this was velvet.

I appreciate all the help, and managed to save 8 other fish, a few which have been with me 6+ years. I'll run one more round of GC on Friday just in case, and finish up the 30 day CU treatment.

It looks like the safe number for going fallow is 45 days now. I bumped the temp up a little, and the DT is running at 79-80. Is it important to get it up a little higher? I may just go 50 days just to be extra safe.

Got plenty of time to rebuild the rock scape in the DT now.... hah

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Well, I think I'm out of the woods. I lost a royal gramma the day after I pulled everything out of the DT, but all other fish are now dramatically improved, including my potter. It was a little touch and go last week, breathing got considerably worse, and a few fish stopped eating, so pretty sure this was velvet.

I appreciate all the help, and managed to save 8 other fish, a few which have been with me 6+ years. I'll run one more round of GC on Friday just in case, and finish up the 30 day CU treatment.

It looks like the safe number for going fallow is 45 days now. I bumped the temp up a little, and the DT is running at 79-80. Is it important to get it up a little higher? I may just go 50 days just to be extra safe.

Got plenty of time to rebuild the rock scape in the DT now.... hah

If you can, go 50+ days fallow. The 45 days at 81 degrees was to test the shortest fallow time that still works. There have been a few failures going that short.
Jay