Is this ick on Porcupine Puffer?

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

I have copperpower, should i treat her with it? it's just showing on the fins, keeps going and coming on different spots in 1-2 days intervals somehow
she's very healthy and swims around and eats all day

MnFish1 · Sep 24, 2023

There are a couple potential answers. If you could get a picture under white light - it would help

. However - it looks like Ich to me under this light. Did you QT the fish - any new additions? Is your plan to do 'ich management' or do you want a 'sterile' tank. If you have a fish only tank (my assumption)- you could try the hypo salinity protocol - which would involve no copper. If you have inverts, and fish - you should take (all) the fish and put them in a QT treatment while leaving your tank fallow per protocol.

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

MnFish1 said:
There are a couple potential answers. If you could get a picture under white light - it would help. However - it looks like Ich to me under this light. Did you QT the fish - any new additions? Is your plan to do 'ich management' or do you want a 'sterile' tank. If you have a fish only tank (my assumption)- you could try the hypo salinity protocol - which would involve no copper. If you have inverts, and fish - you should take (all) the fish and put them in a QT treatment while leaving your tank fallow per protocol.

that's a great answer and question, I'm currently trhinking about it, 7-8 months ago i nuked the tank with coopper power to stop a severe ich infection which killed 9-10 fish(anthias, pufferfish, gamma) and caused anoither 1500$ worth of coral to die, i came back from a holiday and they were in the end stage, so tank got medicated, i removed the copper through cuprisorb, and copper, untill it was completely gone and tripled checked that, I bought a few corals and a fish to give the tank a new life because it's had no coral for so long, so i did get a new fish, i had him in qt for a few days for observation, he looked healthy and was swimming healthy, and had no white at all, so i put him in, and idk if he hurts him self or what, but i noticed the tang 2-3 days later got 2 spots on her forehead, so I'm thinking it is proably ick, I've setup a bigger qt and i'm debating;
1) moving all the sick fish to QT, setting up a 35w UV-C sterlizier, from d&d would it be enough for a red sea 425? to do "ich management'
2) give up the tank + coral + the ecosystem and restart again with bacteria, copepods, amphipods ..etc and just use copper power in my main tank again

idk what would be better in this case and i want to act fast this time around so i don't have any more fish loss

MnFish1 · Sep 24, 2023

reefo420 said:
that's a great answer and question, I'm currently trhinking about it, 7-8 months ago i nuked the tank with coopper power to stop a severe ich infection which killed 9-10 fish(anthias, pufferfish, gamma) and caused anoither 1500$ worth of coral to die, i came back from a holiday and they were in the end stage, so tank got medicated, i removed the copper through cuprisorb, and copper, untill it was completely gone and tripled checked that, I bought a few corals and a fish to give the tank a new life because it's had no coral for so long, so i did get a new fish, i had him in qt for a few days for observation, he looked healthy and was swimming healthy, and had no white at all, so i put him in, and idk if he hurts him self or what, but i noticed the tang 2-3 days later got 2 spots on her forehead, so I'm thinking it is proably ick, I've setup a bigger qt and i'm debating;
1) moving all the sick fish to QT, setting up a 35w UV-C sterlizier, from d&d would it be enough for a red sea 425? to do "ich management'
2) give up the tank + coral + the ecosystem and restart again with bacteria, copepods, amphipods ..etc and just use copper power in my main tank again

idk what would be better in this case and i want to act fast this time around so i don't have any more fish loss

I would never 'give up'. I would suggest moving all fish to a QT - and letting the display go fallow. I would say - unless you were checking levels - you may not have 'eradicated' the parasites. The fish treatment should be done independent of the tank - since the rock, etc - adsorbs copper

In other words I vote for option 3. Treat the fish - and leave your display tank fallow. The only reason I'm recommending that is that no one knows - how what could happen with the others. I assume your favorite is the puffer... Maybe I'm wrong. he.she is certainly a very nice fish

MnFish1 · Sep 24, 2023

reefo420 said:
that's a great answer and question, I'm currently trhinking about it, 7-8 months ago i nuked the tank with coopper power to stop a severe ich infection which killed 9-10 fish(anthias, pufferfish, gamma) and caused anoither 1500$ worth of coral to die, i came back from a holiday and they were in the end stage, so tank got medicated, i removed the copper through cuprisorb, and copper, untill it was completely gone and tripled checked that, I bought a few corals and a fish to give the tank a new life because it's had no coral for so long, so i did get a new fish, i had him in qt for a few days for observation, he looked healthy and was swimming healthy, and had no white at all, so i put him in, and idk if he hurts him self or what, but i noticed the tang 2-3 days later got 2 spots on her forehead, so I'm thinking it is proably ick, I've setup a bigger qt and i'm debating;
1) moving all the sick fish to QT, setting up a 35w UV-C sterlizier, from d&d would it be enough for a red sea 425? to do "ich management'
2) give up the tank + coral + the ecosystem and restart again with bacteria, copepods, amphipods ..etc and just use copper power in my main tank again

idk what would be better in this case and i want to act fast this time around so i don't have any more fish loss

OH and by the way - just moving the sick fish to QT is not a viable option. All fish have to go through it - if one fish is sick.

MnFish1 · Sep 24, 2023

PS I am very partial to puffers.

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

I have 9 fish
foxface, 2clownfish (in sump idk if they can get sick that way0
puffer, 2 wrasses, bangai cardinal, goby ..etc, would they be fine to be quarantined in a 35 gallon aqarium? for 2 months? would the UV be good enough?
aalso, can i just have the uv's sterlized water go into my return champer? intake is from the skimmer chamber, and return would be just there?

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

MnFish1 said:
I would never 'give up'. I would suggest moving all fish to a QT - and letting the display go fallow. I would say - unless you were checking levels - you may not have 'eradicated' the parasites. The fish treatment should be done independent of the tank - since the rock, etc - adsorbs copper

In other words I vote for option 3. Treat the fish - and leave your display tank fallow. The only reason I'm recommending that is that no one knows - how what could happen with the others. I assume your favorite is the puffer... Maybe I'm wrong. he.she is certainly a very nice fish

she is, she looked healthy in my LFS, I haven't found a single fs that sells quarnatined fish and I might have made a mistake by not quaranting enough since my system was flawless for nealy 7 months, I've done 50% water change before i got the fish, added a bunch of new pods, bacteria, checked water params and everything was perfect, wouild the uv be strong enough to do ich management, while i treat the fish that are currently displaying the symtomps? opr should i just put them all in there

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

also since the QT isn't cycled, i've got some fritz bacteria and around 150 pounds of live rock that i can use to kick start it, but idk how soon to start moving fish after that ..etc

MnFish1 · Sep 24, 2023

So - the answer I think would be - QT all of the fish per the protocol. You do not need live rock - an inert sponge filter should do the same thing. You just have to keep oxygen and copper levels at the tested recommendation (not Oxygen - copper)

MnFish1 · Sep 24, 2023

reefo420 said:
she is, she looked healthy in my LFS, I haven't found a single fs that sells quarnatined fish and I might have made a mistake by not quaranting enough since my system was flawless for nealy 7 months, I've done 50% water change before i got the fish, added a bunch of new pods, bacteria, checked water params and everything was perfect, wouild the uv be strong enough to do ich management, while i treat the fish that are currently displaying the symtomps? opr should i just put them all in there

My answer to the questions at the bottom - its impossible to answer - but 'unlikely'

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

would the 35 gallon be enough for all those fish and what should i do with my shrimp, he's survived 2ppm of copper somehow already once and he's quite healthy, and if i opt for "ich management" and how can i go about it, just set up my UV and observe?

MnFish1 · Sep 24, 2023

reefo420 said:
would the 35 gallon be enough for all those fish and what should i do with my shrimp, he's survived 2ppm of copper somehow already once and he's quite healthy, and if i opt for "ich management" and how can i go about it, just set up my UV and observe?

It's my opinion that the shrimp did not survive 2 ppm copper (though I guess possible) - it's that your tests were wrong). In addition was not sure you were dosing in a reef-type tank - into which one should never dose copper. The variables of what you should/could do are enormous. I would treat the fish, and add them back to your tank after a fallow period,

Jay Hemdal · Sep 24, 2023

reefo420 said:
I have copperpower, should i treat her with it? it's just showing on the fins, keeps going and coming on different spots in 1-2 days intervals somehow
she's very healthy and swims around and eats all day

Better pics might help us diagnosis this, but your comment of the spots coming and going is how ich acts, so partially confirms it.

That’s a lot of fish to put in a new 35 gallon quarantine. What invertebrates do you have in your display? It might be easier to pull them and run hyposalinity.

Jay

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
Better pics might help us diagnosis this, but your comment of the spots coming and going is how ich acts, so partially confirms it.

That’s a lot of fish to put in a new 35 gallon quarantine. What invertebrates do you have in your display? It might be easier to pull them and run hyposalinity.

Jay

just 1 cleaner shrimp, what can i do with the coral in the meanwhile? it's just one acan that i care for tbh, would it be okay in the other "qt tank i have setup? it has no meds in it for now, i just want the corals to stay there for a month while i run hypo, I've just ordered a 39w uv-c (75w) equv uv-serlizier as well, tbh i got it mainly for ich but if hypo works hgow long should i run it for? and is this uv not needed ?

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

also is it risky? i don't have much water on hand, just around 10 gall, this tank is around a 110 gal volume, i'd have to use tap, and then order a 100 gal of saltwater again, or can i just add salt? how slow should i take it down from 25 to 09

reefo420 · Sep 24, 2023

tbh since in the uk no quarantines and i can easily get ich again is the only reason i'm thinking of going for ich mangaement, im just trying to figure out how to treat the current fish then opt for that since i'd probably get it by getting a live rock with corals on it or something that'd bring it back so that's why im thinking of just using copper on the fish gradually in the hospital tank while the uv gets rid of the free swimming ones, i can move 70% of the fish and do copper power for a month and observe the remaining two fish that are secluded from the rest (bangai and goby) the rest i can take to the hospital and treat them while maintaing low ich population in the display, is raising temp or lowering salinity by a little bit helpful? current salinity is 0.26 and temp is 80

Jay Hemdal · Sep 24, 2023

reefo420 said:
just 1 cleaner shrimp, what can i do with the coral in the meanwhile? it's just one acan that i care for tbh, would it be okay in the other "qt tank i have setup? it has no meds in it for now, i just want the corals to stay there for a month while i run hypo, I've just ordered a 39w uv-c (75w) equv uv-serlizier as well, tbh i got it mainly for ich but if hypo works hgow long should i run it for? and is this uv not needed ?

Sorry, by "invertebrate", I meant all invertebrates and that includes corals, they all need to be moved out if you are going to try hypo.

If you can't do that, then ich management is really your only other choice.

Jay

Jay Hemdal · Sep 24, 2023

reefo420 said:
also is it risky? i don't have much water on hand, just around 10 gall, this tank is around a 110 gal volume, i'd have to use tap, and then order a 100 gal of saltwater again, or can i just add salt? how slow should i take it down from 25 to 09

Yes, you can use dechlorinated tap water. This thread explains hyposalinity.

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2024 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com