Is this normal for a QT cycle?

[Steve1500]

Hello, I have a 37G QT that I am trying to cycle. I used Dr. Tims Ammonia Chloride and Dr. Tim's One and Only (bacteria) as prescribed and the NH3 level has been at 3 ppm for about 2 weeks. The temps outside have been below zero degrees for a while here in OH, so the One and Only was very cold (not frozen) when it arrived via UPS. I let it warm up before applying to the QT. Dr. Tims instructions say that a bare bottom QT will take longer to cycle because there is nothing for the bacteria to cling to, so I added some marbles and even added some small pieces (1-2 lbs) of LR from my already cycled DT. Still no decrease in NH3 or Nitrite spike. In my haste, I added some Seachem Stability thinking that maybe the One and Only may have been too cold for the bacteria. Still, no decrease in NH3. Based on what I have done, is two weeks for a bare bottom QT to show no NH3 decrease normal?


Should I be patient and keep monitoring, start all over or keep adding Seachem?


Thanks in advance,

Steve

 

[Brew12]

Hello, I have a 37G QT that I am trying to cycle. I used Dr. Tims Ammonia Chloride and Dr. Tim's One and Only (bacteria) as prescribed and the NH3 level has been at 3 ppm for about 2 weeks. The temps outside have been below zero degrees for a while here in OH, so the One and Only was very cold (not frozen) when it arrived via UPS. I let it warm up before applying to the QT. Dr. Tims instructions say that a bare bottom QT will take longer to cycle because there is nothing for the bacteria to cling to, so I added some marbles and even added some small pieces (1-2 lbs) of LR from my already cycled DT. Still no decrease in NH3 or Nitrite spike. In my haste, I added some Seachem Stability thinking that maybe the One and Only may have been too cold for the bacteria. Still, no decrease in NH3. Based on what I have done, is two weeks for a bare bottom QT to show no NH3 decrease normal?


Should I be patient and keep monitoring, start all over or keep adding Seachem?


Thanks in advance,

Steve

I would be patient and keep monitoring. Have you tested NO3 yet?

 

[Steve1500]

Not yet but I will today

 

[Brew12]

Not yet but I will today

What are you using for filtration? Do you have a sponge or floss in it?

 

[Steve1500]

It looks like a floss wrapped around something, maybe carbon. Can the bacteria get trapped in this?

 

[Brew12]

It looks like a floss wrapped around something, maybe carbon. Can the bacteria get trapped in this?

Yup it will hold bacteria just fine, but the carbon will also pull out most meds. Not ideal for a QT system. I prefer to use a regular sponge media.

 

[Steve1500]

Thanks. I will change to a sponge.

Btw, my nitrates are at 0 ppm. I will continue to monitor and see what happens.

 

[Steve1500]

I read some of Brandon429 thread on "The Microbiology of reef tank cycling". He said not to add ammonia to a tank w LR. As mentioned above, I added LR about a week after I added the ammonia. Will this hurt anything?

He also mentions that it takes about 30 days to cycle even with bacteria in a bottle. This helps me sleep better since it has only been two weeks without a decrease in ammonia.

 

[Brew12]

I read some of Brandon429 thread on "The Microbiology of reef tank cycling". He said not to add ammonia to a tank w LR. As mentioned above, I added LR about a week after I added the ammonia. Will this hurt anything?

He also mentions that it takes about 30 days to cycle even with bacteria in a bottle. This helps me sleep better since it has only been two weeks without a decrease in ammonia.

It depends on how "live" the live rock is. If it is live rock that only has bacteria and/or algae on it then adding ammonia won't hurt anything. If it has sponges or other interesting life then it could cause problems.

How long it takes depends on what you are calling a "cycle". I really dislike the term because it can mean different things to different people. If you look at cycling as getting enough bacteria to make it safe to add fish, I cycle my QT system in a day. If you look at it as the complete process of a system with rock/sand reaching a stable state along with being able to reduce ammonia, then it takes longer.

 

[Steve1500]

Thanks Brew, I really appreciate your guidance. The LR came from my DT and it may have had some small sponges/critters living on it but I broke it into small pieces when I put it in the QT. Other than the ammonia killing these organisms, what are the other problems that might occur?

Finally, you mentioned that you can cycle a QT in a day and I have heard others say the same. I assume you would use bacteria in bottle and your setup would not be much different than mine. So what do you think is the big difference that is driving a much longer cycle time (interpreted as "safe for fish") for my QT? If I were to completely replace my QT water, what would you recommend I do different?

VR
Steve

 

[Brew12]

Thanks Brew, I really appreciate your guidance. The LR came from my DT and it may have had some small sponges/critters living on it but I broke it into small pieces when I put it in the QT. Other than the ammonia killing these organisms, what are the other problems that might occur?

Finally, you mentioned that you can cycle a QT in a day and I have heard others say the same. I assume you would use bacteria in bottle and your setup would not be much different than mine. So what do you think is the big difference that is driving a much longer cycle time (interpreted as "safe for fish") for my QT? If I were to completely replace my QT water, what would you recommend I do different?

VR
Steve

I would suspect that your Dr Tims bacteria was frozen/over heated at some point making it much less useful. I use Biospira that I can get from my local Petco and I always use that. Absolutely no reason to replace your QT water. Otherwise, I never use live rock and I don't use carbon. Only a sponge or filter floss.

The other possibility is that the ammonia is coming from the live rock you added. Did you ever do that nitrate test?

 

[Steve1500]

Yes, nitrates are at 0 ppm. I have a half bottle of seachem stability left. Will that work in place of the Biospira? I did add 3 capfuls of stability about 4-5 days ago and I hope I am not making things worse.

I think I will remove the LR and add sponge filters. The only other question is, do I add more stability, go with biospira or just be patient? Thanks again!

 

[Brew12]

Yes, nitrates are at 0 ppm. I have a half bottle of seachem stability left. Will that work in place of the Biospira? I did add 3 capfuls of stability about 4-5 days ago and I hope I am not making things worse.

I think I will remove the LR and add sponge filters. The only other question is, do I add more stability, go with biospira or just be patient? Thanks again!

Adding stability should work, just a little slower. It will definitely not harm anything. The positive of Stability is that the bacteria are in a dormant state so they can survive much more in the way of temperature extremes. This also makes them recover and reproduce more slowly. Stability should be fine even after 4 or 5 years in storage. Biospira and Dr Tims are live active bacteria and so have a shelf life of 1 year and are damaged by high heat and freezing. But, they will start processing ammonia and reproducing straight out of the bottle.

It is up to you how to proceed. If you want to add Stability or Biospira it should speed things up. If you want to be patient, you can do that too. Either will have you end up in the same place.

 

[Steve1500]

I think I will try the biospira route. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Steve1500]

Great, all roads lead to Rome! Last question, I sorta promise: Can I use biospira for a coral QT tank also and is there anything I should do different than a fish QT?

 

[Brew12]

Great, all roads lead to Rome! Last question, I sorta promise: Can I use biospira for a coral QT tank also and is there anything I should do different than a fish QT?

You can. I don't necessarily bother cycling a coral QT. I only very lightly feed my coral in QT and many of them can absorb ammonia directly from the water. Otherwise I set it up almost the exact same.

 

[Steve1500]

Hi Brew, my luck may be changing! I tested for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates today. Ammonia: 3 ppm; nitrites: .25 ppm and nitrates are at about 4 ppm. Of course I went out and bought the Biospira BEFORE I tested. So, should I still add the biospira to speed things up or would that screw things up? I can always return it.

 

[Brew12]

Hi Brew, my luck may be changing! I tested for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates today. Ammonia: 3 ppm; nitrites: .25 ppm and nitrates are at about 4 ppm. Of course I went out and bought the Biospira BEFORE I tested. So, should I still add the biospira to speed things up or would that screw things up? I can always return it.

It should speed it up but again, that is completely up to you. Adding something like Biospira will never hurt a system.

 

[Steve1500]

I think I will add it anyway. Thanks again for your advise....you really helped me out. When I get my DT looking good, I will post some pics!

 

[Brew12]

I think I will add it anyway. Thanks again for your advise....you really helped me out. When I get my DT looking good, I will post some pics!

Glad to help! Can't wait to see you start a build thread!