Is this normal with CP

jasonrusso · Apr 16, 2017

So I dosed my DT 4 days ago. At the time, I thought I was treating a case of crypt. My porcupine puffer was covered pretty good. Since then, I think I changed my mind and now think it is velvet. What do you think?

The tank is a Aqueon 210 with 15 gallons in the sump. I really don't know the total water volume after sand and rocks, so I dosed for 200 gallons. I figured that was close.

In the tank is a Foxface, Dwarf Fuzzy Lion, Kole Tang, Harelquin Tusk, Puffer, and Dwarf Golden Eel. I fed everyone before hand just in case.

I have since removed the puffer as he was the worst one off and startedshowing signs of a bacterial infection (cloudy eye). He is now in his own tank with CP and antibiotics.

Now, the water in the DT is cloudy and the only one who has eaten is the lion. Everyone is active and swimming around (I haven't seen the eel in a couple days, but that happens.) and no one is showing any signs of illness anymore. Before, the tusk was flashing badly and the tang was almost rubbing through his chin on a rock.

The seachem badge turned green (0.05ppm) and has stayed there. I added some prime (API test kit showed bright green, normal?). I started noticing small piles of dead bristle worms (I vacuumed up all that I could see today and replaced the water with treated water).

I checked my nitrates with a red Sea kit and it was between 2-5. Now I do have biopellets, can the cloudiness be a bacterial bloom like I had when I first added the pellets? With all the dying worms and algae, there must be a large amount of nitrogen processing. I changed 10 gallons last night, this morning, and will change 15 tonight. I'm treating all the replacement water with 200mg (5 gallon bucket). Is this ok?

I bought the CP from Fishman. The QT the puffer is in also has the same CP and the water is clear.

jasonrusso · Apr 16, 2017

What else is weird too, is the Ammonia badge in the QT also turned green. Is it possible to get that much ammonia in the tank within minutes? It's a 20 gallon

Humblefish · Apr 16, 2017

Sounds like CP is killing inverts (like bristleworms) and microfauna living inside the rocks. The resulting die-off is triggering an ammonia spike, which is also why the water is turning cloudy. Or CP killing algae in the tank can also cloud the water. It's a bad situation.

jasonrusso · Apr 16, 2017

Humblefish said:
Sounds like CP is killing inverts (like bristleworms) and microfauna living inside the rocks. The resulting die-off is triggering an ammonia spike, which is also why the water is turning cloudy. Or CP killing algae in the tank can also cloud the water. It's a bad situation.

How accurate is the Ammonia badge? It's only showing 0.05.

Humblefish · Apr 16, 2017

jasonrusso said:
How accurate is the Ammonia badge? It's only showing 0.05.

IME; they are fairly accurate. However, you must shine a bright white light either behind or directly overhead to see its true color.

Chitown tom · Apr 16, 2017

jasonrusso said:
How accurate is the Ammonia badge? It's only showing 0.05.

The badge is pretty accurate.
Mine was showing 0.05 and my seneye read it at 0.048

4FordFamily · Apr 16, 2017

.05 constitutes a water change in my book, every time. It should show as yellow as it would in a glass of RO water. Any ammonia presence, particularly with a velvet infestation and the gill damage that comes with it -- is deadly.

It sounds like velvet to me, looks like it, too but I can't be sure.

melypr1985 · Apr 16, 2017

Sounds like it's time for a water change for sure. Hard to be sure if it's ich or velvet from the picture as it's pretty close.... but either way the CP should clear it if your batch has pure enough CP to get the job done.

jasonrusso · Apr 16, 2017

I changed 25 gallons today. I can only change 15 gallons at a time.

jasonrusso · Apr 17, 2017

So last night I pulled the plug on the CP treatment. It was about 2:30 am and I was getting APEX alerts for low pH. It was down to 7.95 (usually up around 8.1) likely due to the die off in the tank. I got up and fired up the carbon reactor (with fresh 0.8 carbon), skimmer (which went nuts) and the UV light.

It's kind of strange, the ammonia never changed from 0.05. Maybe my biofilter is much more robust than I thought and it was processing all the ammonia? I think I really underestimated the amount of "life" in the tank between the algae and small organisms like the bristle worms. Hopefully I didn't kill all of it, because I see bristle worms as a important part of the ecosystem. I never see them, so I didn't realize how many I had.

Now, do you think that 4 1/2 days of treatment did anything to the velvet? I think I treated more than 40mg/gal. The fish stopped flashing and seem active. If they were still eating, I would have continued the treatment.

I'll change another 10 gallons tonight with untreated water. How long until the CP is out of the system? I'll probably change 10 gallons every night this week trying to vacuum up whatever dead worms I see.

I'll monitor the fish closely. How long would it be before I see any symptoms return?

Humblefish · Apr 17, 2017

I doubt 4 1/2 days did much of anything. And I really can't say how long it will take to get CP completely out of your system, because the rocks will continue to absorb and then leach back out the medication for an indefinite period of time.

jasonrusso · Apr 17, 2017

For now, I'm just going to monitor the fish and try to clean up the water.

I'll get them eating again, and I'll scour Craigslist for a large enough used tank to QT them.

leahfiish · Apr 17, 2017

Imo 7.95 is not really a cause for concern with your ph. The ammonia is the only concern. You can also dose prime to detoxify ammonia while you're using cp.

jasonrusso · Apr 17, 2017

leahfiish said:
Imo 7.95 is not really a cause for concern with your ph. The ammonia is the only concern. You can also dose prime to detoxify ammonia while you're using cp.

I agree. It was a combination of the falling pH (a sign of decay in the tank), the Ammonia, and the lack of appetite. I don't want the fish to starve while treating. My wife saw my eel for the first time in 4 days this afternoon.

You can see when I turned the skimmer on.

leahfiish · Apr 17, 2017

jasonrusso said:
I agree. It was a combination of the falling pH (a sign of decay in the tank), the Ammonia, and the lack of appetite. I don't want the fish to starve while treating. My wife saw my eel for the first time in 4 days this afternoon.

You can see when I turned the skimmer on.

You could have left the skimmer on but taken off the cup or put in an airstone or something for extra o2 next time.