Is this possible?

[Outlaw]

So I set up my 20 gal QT today.

By the time I got everything going, I said screw it and added the bottle of bio-spira that's been sitting in my fridge for months. Then I spiked it with Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride to supposedly 4ppm (40 drops). An hour later I got these test results (API):

Ph: 8.0
Amm: 0.75
No2: 0.5
No3: 10

Confused, I added another 20 drops of ammonia. Waited a bit and got these results:

Ph: 8.0
Amm: 0.75
No2: 0.75
No3: 15 ppm.

Any ideas?

 

[Mike J.]

So what are you going to use as a filter? Is it new saltwater or used tank water?

 

[Outlaw]

I have an ac50 with a sponge and bio media. It is freshly made IO at about 1.0235 sg.

 

[Mike J.]

Normally a person would take the sponge filter and bio media and put it in an established tank to colonize them with bacteria. That would then be an effective nitrogen cycle. So, my question is why are you poisoning a tank with ammonia? While the tank's surfaces and the water will harbor a minimum amount of bacteria, the surface area of the filter and bio media is where most of the bacteria will thrive.

 

[Outlaw]

Not really sure what you mean. I am trying to cycle a new tank. I do not have an established tank from which to seed media. My DT isn't wet yet, so I'm trying to get a head start on the QT. I'm "poisoning" the tank to try to establish BB.

 

[Mike J.]

Oh, sorry. And, you're trying to get the ammonia level up to 4 ppm and the bottle of Bio-Spira isn't letting that happen. It could also be that the bio-spira is keeping you from getting a good test reading on the ammonia level. I guess it's a wait until the ammonia goes to zero now.

 

[Outlaw]

Thanks, yeah I'll test tonight and see where it's at. I figured even if the biospira worked, which I wasn't counting on, I didn't figure to see no2/3 in an hour. Something seems wonky.

 

[Mike J.]

Nitrogen cycle: Heterotrophic bacteria mineralize amino acids into ammonium. Then autotrophic nitrifying bacteria convert ammonium into nitrite and nitrate. So, ammonia levels rise and Nitrosomonas europaea bacteria oxidize the ammonia to nitrite. Then Nitrospira-like bacteria oxidize nitrites to nitrates. I think the "wonky" part of this is the Bio-spira has these bacteria in it which will give you nitrite and nitrate readings.

 

[Outlaw]

Lol, nice! I guess the stuff works. Really well! Even if several months old.

Given this, not sure why dosing 60 drops of ammonium chloride (supposedly resulting in 6ppm) would show a max reading of 0.75 within a couple hours. It's an API test kit, so there's that.

 

[Outlaw]

24 hours:

Just dosed another 40 drops (4ppm).

Question: how do you know if 4ppm is reduced to 0 in 24 hrs if you can't get it to 4ppm?

Suggestions?

 

[Outlaw]

Tested last night and got the following:

Ph 8
Amm 0ish
No2 5
No3 between 20 and 40.

Spiked another 40 drops of ammonia and an hour later it read around 0.5.

Starting to wonder about this dr tim's ammonia.

 

[Outlaw]

Can't edit. I'm meant amm was around 2 after dosing.

 

[rayn]

What ammonia reading are you after? IF everything you ate adding is working, you are just making the cycle worse in my opinion. If ammonia is present, you have ammonia. If it drops to 0 and you have nitrite, the bacteria is working. If you have nitrite drop to 0 and have nitrate, the bacteria is working. If you keep adding ammonia, the tank needs to reestablish itself to that ammonia. Think of it like adding to many fish to fast. Let the tank cycle and it should be good.

Looking at the QT pic, is there a hob filter there? You want one to house the bacteria to maintain the bio filter.

 

[Outlaw]

I am trying to build the bb to neutralize 4ppm in 24 hrs, as seems to be the consensus, before qt'ing my first fish.

I have an AC 50 with sponge and bio-media.

 

[Outlaw]

Alright, what the heck. This tank has been up since Sunday. Had it up to 2ppm ammonia last night, here are tonight's readings. Um where did the nitrates go? Amm is 0 but No2 is high. Should I wait until No2 is gone before I redose amm? And
Ph went down a bit. Not sure what's going on as this seems to differ from common accounts.

 

[Outlaw]

Last 3 nights. 8 day cycle with biospira?

Tonight

 

[graphicluis]

Normally a person would take the sponge filter and bio media and put it in an established tank to colonize them with bacteria. That would then be an effective nitrogen cycle. So, my question is why are you poisoning a tank with ammonia? While the tank's surfaces and the water will harbor a minimum amount of bacteria, the surface area of the filter and bio media is where most of the bacteria will thrive.

Completely agree with this statement.

 

[hart24601]

I think the way he is doing it is a great method. Dose ammonia until you see the system has the capacity to reduce it quickly, then add fish. I would keep watching levels and keep dosing for a little while longer imo.

 

[Outlaw]

Thanks, will do. Any suggestions on an ammonia source that will last a few days while I am out of town?

 

[hart24601]

You could put a chunk of raw shrimp or something in there to decompose while you are gone. Take it out when you get back and check levels. Dose ammonia and see how fast it gets reduced.