Is this Standard Practice?

[don_chuwish]

I think the consensus is not disputing the box charges and addons although they deem it unfair and non-disclosed but when you take those add-ons and factor in $20-49 increase in price of livestock, in essence a $40 fish can be well over $100 shipped and the LFS price is maybe $45.
That is a Deal breaker especially when fish is being shipped and no telling its health until it arrives, that is if it arrives or arrives late, even an additional night

If people get pushed back to the LFS for fish I don’t think that’s a bad thing in general. But some of us in more rural areas don’t have great LFS options.

 

[lavoisier]

Definitely not illegal but they could be more transparent about the box charge, although $10 isn’t the end of the world.

My issue with LA/DD is that they’ve raised their prices overnight (in some cases doubled). I’m somewhat addicted to checking the DD daily and have ordered many fish from them but I don’t understand how they can justify these price hikes...perhaps if they implemented a more stringent QT protocol...

Remember it is not the LA/DD we had come to love but a new owner, Petco, with a different business model that is raising pricing aggressively. Only time will tell if they can be successful with this new approach.

 

[doughboy]

we all got used to amazon prime free shipping. but its not really free as the price is higher and you pay for prime. not illegal, more like not transparent. not as bad as hotel resort fee, where you pay regardless if you use the resort facilities or not. you use the box you paid for in this case.

 

[Thales]

I think we are seeing vendors realize that they can't survive if they sell at a loss, so they are charging what stuff actually costs.

 

[flsalty]

The one thing that goes through my head are most of the people complaining the ones who never owned or ran a business?

But yes.. they should mention all charges up front. More honest.

But if you want quality service, healthy livestock, good shipping containers, a qt process in place, and etc etc be prepared to pay a premium. End of story.

I've owned several businesses, including online sales.

There is no such thing as free shipping. That is built into the cost of the item. But it's dishonest when you advertise free shipping, then add shipping charges. I guarantee you these companies are making profit off of shipping. That's what corporations do. And consumers are dumb enough to cheer them on while getting gouged in the name of profits.

 

[flsalty]

I think we are seeing vendors realize that they can't survive if they sell at a loss, so they are charging what stuff actually costs.

But they are charging what the stuff would actually cost us, not what what it costs them. The shipping supplies are fairly cheap when bought in bulk. The actual shipping charges are considerably less as well. The problem is that corporations are always looking for ways to squeeze out increased profits.

 

[EmdeReef]

I think we are seeing vendors realize that they can't survive if they sell at a loss, so they are charging what stuff actually costs.

That would imply that LA has been mismanaged and running losses for the last decade?!
Hiking prices by up to 100% overnight is rarely a sustainable practice for companies. Time will tell but in the context of classical finance - it’s one of the first signs of a business going bankrupt.

 

[madweazl]

I haven't ordered anything there since 2016 but I'm pretty sure they had the box fee then. I dont mind a fee but $10 is fairly spendy for something that likely costs them less than $1 to put together.

 

[WVNed]

I knew when I got stuff packed in 4 bags that still leaked that LA was not long of this world. It shows the people there are wasteful and don't know what they are doing.
People that don't know what they are doing dont do well with live animal care either.

 

[hart24601]

I have not been thrilled with the new practices and rigor when reporting DOA and the such, especially the change to only offering credit, not refunds, but I get it. I know so many people that abused that policy it's amazing they didn't go out of business already. And speaking to that we don't know how well they were doing, while it may seem like trying to wring out every last cent, for all we know they were boarding on going out of business and these changes were required - we just don't know either way. They new changes are still in line with the industry overall, for sure a step back from the old policies, but nothing extreme in the industry.

 

[Thales]

That would imply that LA has been mismanaged and running losses for the last decade?!
Hiking prices by up to 100% overnight is rarely a sustainable practice for companies. Time will tell but in the context of classical finance - it’s one of the first signs of a business going bankrupt.

I think it was on purpose to stay 'competitive' and to get more sales at F&S.

 

[Thales]

But they are charging what the stuff would actually cost us, not what what it costs them. The shipping supplies are fairly cheap when bought in bulk. The actual shipping charges are considerably less as well. The problem is that corporations are always looking for ways to squeeze out increased profits.

Then you have to ship the stuff, space to store the stuff, manage inventory on the stuff, and pay people to move it around. And make a profit. Isn't the point of being in business, corporate or not, is to make a profit?

 

[Thales]

I haven't ordered anything there since 2016 but I'm pretty sure they had the box fee then. I dont mind a fee but $10 is fairly spendy for something that likely costs them less than $1 to put together.

Insulated Shipper Kits in Stock - ULINE

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[EmdeReef]

I think it was on purpose to stay 'competitive' and to get more sales at F&S.

Yes but again doing a 180 virtually overnight is a risky proposition unless they’re assuming decreased competition. If anything the pressure is higher now than a decade ago when LA was one of the few online retailers...

A few fish I got 4-5 months ago are now $3-400 more only on DD. I don’t think they’ve improved their value proposition, if anything lowered it, to justify such a hike.

 

[Thales]

Yes but again doing a 180 virtually overnight is a risky proposition unless they’re assuming decreased competition. If anything the pressure is higher now than a decade ago when LA was one of the few online retailers...

For sure.

A few fish I got 4-5 months ago are now $3-400 more only on DD. I don’t think they’ve improved their value proposition, if anything lowered it, to justify such a hike.

We will see. I think we are seeing the entire market adjust from using animals as loss leaders to more realistic pricing in regards to what things actually cost

 

[fcmatt]

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No sane business person I know orders from Uline. They are ridiculously expensive. That is not the best example to use but I understand the point you were making. It will be super difficult to get a consistent vendor to offer an insulated box at a dollar each. If I had to guess it does not exist.

I notice the smaller vendors cut their own insulation to go in the box to save money.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Reminds me of a local restaurant that my wife and I used to eat at once or twice a week. Was bought out and the first thing I noticed was an all new wait staff. Obviously a "strategy" to improve profits. Next thing was a gradual increase in prices. Another "strategy" to improve profits. All the while it became much easier to find a parking spot. After several price increases, we chose to eat elsewhere. Now we hear that they have instituted a mandatory waiter fee as well as a mandatory tip fee. All the while, fewer and fewer people eat there. The best way to improve profit is to increase sales but most of the time we see things like this that lower sales volume and trigger more gimmicks. Usually a sign that they are in trouble.

 

[Thales]

No sane business person I know orders from Uline. They are ridiculously expensive. That is not the best example to use but I understand the point you were making. It will be super difficult to get a consistent vendor to offer an insulated box at a dollar each. If I had to guess it does not exist.

I notice the smaller vendors cut their own insulation to go in the box to save money.

Right! It is so interesting isn't it? Smaller vendors vs larger ones? The scale is so different. At some point, paying people to cut styro becomes not cost effective - if it ever actually was in the first place. I seen so many small vendors do stuff that isn't actually cost effective, but they think is. Even weirder, so many of the smaller ones don't really keep up on their books, and often don't really know where they are leaking money or not. That isn't just in reefing, most small businesses are working so hard just to keep the lights and bigger picture stuff often falls through the cracks.

Also, LA boxes are the best aquatic animal shipping boxes around. The styro is thick and first class, and the outer it the same. At Steinhart, we saved all the LA boxes for reuse because they are so good. I bet if they went for a lower cost option people would complain.

 

[Thales]

Reminds me of a local restaurant that my wife and I used to eat at once or twice a week. Was bought out and the first thing I noticed was an all new wait staff. Obviously a "strategy" to improve profits. Next thing was a gradual increase in prices. Another "strategy" to improve profits. All the while it became much easier to find a parking spot. After several price increases, we chose to eat elsewhere. Now we hear that they have instituted a mandatory waiter fee as well as a mandatory tip fee. All the while, fewer and fewer people eat there. The best way to improve profit is to increase sales but most of the time we see things like this that lower sales volume and trigger more gimmicks. Usually a sign that they are in trouble.

It is so interesting! That is what people said when LA initially offered the 2 week guarantee.

 

[flsalty]

Then you have to ship the stuff, space to store the stuff, manage inventory on the stuff, and pay people to move it around. And make a profit. Isn't the point of being in business, corporate or not, is to make a profit?

Yes, but how much is a reasonable profit? The costs per piece is very low. How many units of fish, coral, or plants do you think a big company like LA ships out a day? Those costs you mention are spread out over each piece. It's hard for the average hobbyist to get a perspective because our real world costs are much higher if we only sell a few frags a week.