Is this the correct level?

[Reefrookie733]

Sorry didnt see this info,

*Yes i have a older Reeflo dart super gold non-hybrid
*I have 2 overflow sections with a herbie in each
*pipe diameter for the herbie is 3/4" for the primary siphons drains and 1" for the emergency drains
*one drain flows quite a bit and the other is a slow, i will add a video to show you
*one pipe is longer than the other by about 6 feet
*the drain that is slow is fully open and the other drain the ball valve on it is about 80 percent open

and yes lapin i have a union valve on the inlet as well as the outlet of the return pump. Here is a picture

 

[Idoc]

Just to re-iterate since I'm kind of confused on what is being requested concerning getting the max flow from the return pump.

On a Herbie, the full siphon drain should be about 6" under the top level of the water in the overflow box. The full siphon drain should have a gate valve on it after it enters into the sump. The second higher pipe in the overflow box is the emergency drain line and it should be even with the water level at the top of the overflow box. This emergency drain line should NOT have as much water shooting through it as in your first post picture. This drain line should only be a "trickle" into the sump AND should not have any valves on the line.

It's not common to use your return pump to generate all the flow in your tank. But, some people like to have a huge turnover in their tank so they run their return pump really high...that's a decision you will need to make. But, to set your water height and flow:

1. Turn on your return pump to the level you want it to run. Then watch the overflow...start with the full siphon line gate valve 100% open. If the water isn't rising in the overflow, then you need to start closing the gate valve until you see the water start to rise over the full siphon line.
2. Once the water hits the top of the Emergency drain line, you may start to get overflow from this pipe into your sump. Perform micro-turns of the full siphon gate valve until you are just getting a trickle through the Emergency drain line. At this point, your Herbie system is set!

Now if you are getting a "gurgling" or "air suction" into your return line, then you don't have enough water in the entire system! Add enough saltware into the system so that you have about 2-3" of water over your return line intake. Once you are at that point, mark that height on your sump so you know exactly where the water should be at all times! Then set your ATO sensor to this level in the return chamber and it will keep the water stable for you at that height.

BUT...VERY IMPORTANT -- YOUR SUMP MUST BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE SIPHONED RETURNED WATER WHEN THE PUMPS SHUT OFF! I have an over the rim return line on my system....I drilled a 1/4" hole in the return line at the height where I want my water to stop. So, when the return pump is turned off, when the DT water hits that height, it will intake air and break the back-siphon going into the sump! YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS HOLE ON YOUR SYSTEM AS WELL.

Shut off your pump....watch the water return to the sump. If it is able to handle all the return water, then you are golden! Mark that water height on the sump permanently as well as your HIGH WATER FLOOD LEVEL.

 

[saltyhog]

Just to re-iterate since I'm kind of confused on what is being requested concerning getting the max flow from the return pump.

On a Herbie, the full siphon drain should be about 6" under the top level of the water in the overflow box. The full siphon drain should have a gate valve on it after it enters into the sump. The second higher pipe in the overflow box is the emergency drain line and it should be even with the water level at the top of the overflow box. This emergency drain line should NOT have as much water shooting through it as in your first post picture. This drain line should only be a "trickle" into the sump AND should not have any valves on the line.

It's not common to use your return pump to generate all the flow in your tank. But, some people like to have a huge turnover in their tank so they run their return pump really high...that's a decision you will need to make. But, to set your water height and flow:

1. Turn on your return pump to the level you want it to run. Then watch the overflow...start with the full siphon line gate valve 100% open. If the water isn't rising in the overflow, then you need to start closing the gate valve until you see the water start to rise over the full siphon line.
2. Once the water hits the top of the Emergency drain line, you may start to get overflow from this pipe into your sump. Perform micro-turns of the full siphon gate valve until you are just getting a trickle through the Emergency drain line. At this point, your Herbie system is set!

Now if you are getting a "gurgling" or "air suction" into your return line, then you don't have enough water in the entire system! Add enough saltware into the system so that you have about 2-3" of water over your return line intake. Once you are at that point, mark that height on your sump so you know exactly where the water should be at all times! Then set your ATO sensor to this level in the return chamber and it will keep the water stable for you at that height.

BUT...VERY IMPORTANT -- YOUR SUMP MUST BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE SIPHONED RETURNED WATER WHEN THE PUMPS SHUT OFF! I have an over the rim return line on my system....I drilled a 1/4" hole in the return line at the height where I want my water to stop. So, when the return pump is turned off, when the DT water hits that height, it will intake air and break the back-siphon going into the sump! YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS HOLE ON YOUR SYSTEM AS WELL.

Shut off your pump....watch the water return to the sump. If it is able to handle all the return water, then you are golden! Mark that water height on the sump permanently as well as your HIGH WATER FLOOD LEVEL.

I thought the same thing Idoc....after looking at the more recent pictures I think the two drains we see in the first picture are the two full siphons from his dual overflows and the emergency drains are emptying in a different chamber.

Reefrookie, is there any air coming out of either full siphon (may not be able to tell unless they are under the water). If the one with less flow is the one with the longer course to get there, it may not have purged all the air out of it. If so the emergency drain from that overflow should have more flow coming out of it than the other one.

Also, since you have ball valves rather than gate valves, try opening up the one that has less flow a little and see if that increases the flow.

 

[Reefrookie733]

First, yes the water level in your sup should be higher than 1" over the return pump inlet. If your sump is properly configured it should only take a few gallons more water added to get the level up.

Second, are both of your full siphon drains the same height? If so are the gate valves on them opened exactly the same amount? If both answers are yes then there is something obstructing the one on the left.

Where are the drain pipes for the trickle drain of your Herbie's? They aren't pictured.

**Ok, so my water level is only 1 inch above the return pipe inlet. SO im going to add a little more water to the sump to see what that does.
** I am not sure what you mean by drain pipes for the trickle drains. I only have a TOTAL of 4 pipes coming out of the tank. 2 on each side. 2 are siphon drain pipes that are exactly 6 inches below the other 2 pipes which are the emergency drain pipes. here is a picture of ALL 4 pipes emptying into the sump.

 

[saltyhog]

Is the amount of water coming out of the two trickle drains the same? There should be more coming out of the one associated with the siphon with lesser flow. If not there is less flow going in to the overflow which makes no sense to me.

 

[Reefrookie733]

Just to re-iterate since I'm kind of confused on what is being requested concerning getting the max flow from the return pump.

On a Herbie, the full siphon drain should be about 6" under the top level of the water in the overflow box. The full siphon drain should have a gate valve on it after it enters into the sump. The second higher pipe in the overflow box is the emergency drain line and it should be even with the water level at the top of the overflow box. This emergency drain line should NOT have as much water shooting through it as in your first post picture. This drain line should only be a "trickle" into the sump AND should not have any valves on the line.

It's not common to use your return pump to generate all the flow in your tank. But, some people like to have a huge turnover in their tank so they run their return pump really high...that's a decision you will need to make. But, to set your water height and flow:

1. Turn on your return pump to the level you want it to run. Then watch the overflow...start with the full siphon line gate valve 100% open. If the water isn't rising in the overflow, then you need to start closing the gate valve until you see the water start to rise over the full siphon line.
2. Once the water hits the top of the Emergency drain line, you may start to get overflow from this pipe into your sump. Perform micro-turns of the full siphon gate valve until you are just getting a trickle through the Emergency drain line. At this point, your Herbie system is set!

Now if you are getting a "gurgling" or "air suction" into your return line, then you don't have enough water in the entire system! Add enough saltware into the system so that you have about 2-3" of water over your return line intake. Once you are at that point, mark that height on your sump so you know exactly where the water should be at all times! Then set your ATO sensor to this level in the return chamber and it will keep the water stable for you at that height.

BUT...VERY IMPORTANT -- YOUR SUMP MUST BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE SIPHONED RETURNED WATER WHEN THE PUMPS SHUT OFF! I have an over the rim return line on my system....I drilled a 1/4" hole in the return line at the height where I want my water to stop. So, when the return pump is turned off, when the DT water hits that height, it will intake air and break the back-siphon going into the sump! YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS HOLE ON YOUR SYSTEM AS WELL.

Shut off your pump....watch the water return to the sump. If it is able to handle all the return water, then you are golden! Mark that water height on the sump permanently as well as your HIGH WATER FLOOD LEVEL.

Ok doc going to answer some of this here, Thanks for the input and i think im good with most/some of it.

1. The picture ive attached shows ALL 4 pipes coming from my tank. Both the 2 siphon drains and the 2 emergency overflow pipes. Two on the left that are emptying into the tank (one ALOT and the other is the trickle) and the two pipes in the center of the sump. Those are the emergency drain pipes. Those have NO water coming from them as they shouldn't i guess. Those pipes are exactly even with the Weirs/top of the overflows and the siphon drains are exactly 6 inches below them on both sides with strainers attached.

2. The only place i have BALL valves is right below the bottom of the tank. Picture attached. Not sure what you mean about ""The full siphon drain should have a gate valve on it after it enters into the sump"".

3. I do NOT have any gurgling once i adjust the 2 valves from the drain lines. The one of the left is fully open and the one on the right is about 80% open. this keeps them at the perfect level (mid strainer) and there is not noise

4. I will have to digest what you are talking about with the water height and flow to be able to respond intelligently (if at all possible) lol .

5. lastly, i have turned off the pump every night since i am using waste water at the moment to test the flow and leakage of the tank. with the pump turned off the water does not rise more than an inch or so from where you see the baffles (white things) at now. So if anything i am thinking i just dont have enough water in the sump??

 

[Reefrookie733]

Is the amount of water coming out of the two trickle drains the same? There should be more coming out of the one associated with the siphon with lesser flow. If not there is less flow going in to the overflow which makes no sense to me.

what is the name of all that is holy is a trickle drain? lol

If you see the above pictures show 4 drain pipes going into the sump. 2 on the left are the primary SIPHON drains and the 2 in the middle are the emergency drain pipes. Those 2 have ZERO water coming out of the. As for the 2 on the left (primary drain pipes) only one is flowing heavily and the other is just a slow flow.

 

[lapin]

Sounds like we are getting there. Is the slow drain the longest one?

 

[Reefrookie733]

Sounds like we are getting there. Is the slow drain the longest one?

yes sir, BUT oddly enough (and i hate to throw this in there) when i completely turn off the other valve on the one drain that is flowing well, it still does not force the "longer" primary drain to increase. That is why i am still leaning to maybe there is something clogging the pipe??

at that point the emergency drain on the short side is forced to start flowing?

By the way i put the level in to see if maybe it was off but bubble is exactly in middle....fyi

 

[lapin]

Note for later: Never restrict the intake of a pump, only the output

 

[lapin]

alright gang this is what I think
For some reason the long run of must not be purging all the air and there for not becoming a full siphon?

 

[lapin]

anyone?

If this is the case then look to replace a 90 degree fitting with 2ea 45's. Is this possible?
You want a downward flow not a cross wards flow

 

[Reefrookie733]

Note for later: Never restrict the intake of a pump, only the output

yeah i did that in the beggining but if you see the picture now i am only limiting the outlet side.

EDIT======Good catch! This was a picture from last week before someone educated me on that exact thing...might have been you! lol

 

[Reefrookie733]

anyone?

If this is the case then look to replace a 90 degree fitting with 2ea 45's. Is this possible?

lol...anything is possible! painful but possible. I was just excited that i finally got the darn thing to run all day without any leaks!!!

 

[lapin]

Note number 2.
I think you mentioned this but in case not. I would raise the level in the return chamber so the pump does not suck in air. I understand you are just trying stuff out.

 

[lapin]

lol...anything is possible! painful but possible. I was just excited that i finally got the darn thing to run all day without any leaks!!!

You might be able to use flex hose in stead of PVC as long as it flows downward and not at 90 degrees

 

[Reefrookie733]

You might be able to use flex hose in stead of PVC as long as it flows downward and not at 90 degrees

Was just looking at it...i cant shorten the left side because the union ball valve takes up all the space. Maybe i could remove the valve and use a 45 degree to give it more down angle and put the valve further down the pipe??

 

[Reefrookie733]

Note number 2.
I think you mentioned this but in case not. I would raise the level in the return chamber so the pump does not suck in air. I understand you are just trying stuff out.

Getting ready to do just that. i am wondering if adding another 10 gallons of water wont fix all of these slow flow issues? hmmm

 

[saltyhog]

alright gang this is what I think
For some reason the long run of must not be purging all the air and there for not becoming a full siphon?

Agree, that's what I tried to say(rather poorly) above.

Reefrookie, usually in a Herbie the emergency drain has a small trickle of water and it sets the height of the water column in the overflow box. There should be a small amount of water going through the emergency drain. It should not be dry. Trying to balance the flow in a dual Herbie set up with completely dry emergency drains is almost impossible with a gate valve...with a ball valve it probably is impossible.

Can you take a picture of the top of your over flow boxes? How far does the water fall from the slots in the overflow?

Adding more water won't change the situation with the decreased flow in one drain (unless the pump is sucking air which it doesn't appear to be doing).

 

[lapin]

Was just looking at it...i cant shorten the left side because the union ball valve takes up all the space. Maybe i could remove the valve and use a 45 degree to give it more down angle and put the valve further down the pipe??

That might work. Its my guess the 90 degree run is the problem. So if you can fix that then it "should" be an even flow out of both drains
Adding more water in the return section will not fix the drain issue. As long as the pumps intake pipe is full of water and you dont have the pumps exit dialed back, it will pump the same amount of water, no matter how full the return section is