Is this Uronema?

[bryan3536]

Had 7 Chromis and blenny in tank, all got FW baths, doing fine for about 2 weeks (and blenny and one chromis had been in tank for months). Added clown pair, also good for two weeks. Added a bunch of livestock on Sat, all got FW baths before going into DT as well. 3 different Anthias, a Three Stripe Damsel, Watchman goby, six like wrasse, and a royal gramma. One of the Anthias didn’t make it through night, and by Sunday night gramma disappeared from rock - chalked both up to stress (Anthias had an incident during acclimation, gramma was tiny and being picked on by one chromis). Monday a chromis disppeared - Chalked that up to species aggression (I have a large chromis that is a d*ck). Tuesday one of my clowns disappeared, and two other chromis had what looked like wounds. Today those two are missing, and my big Anthias has sores/wound. It looks like an external attack, but so many so quick, thinking it could be Uronema. Pics below. Thoughts? If it is Uronema, how scared should I be for remaining livestock - Watchman goby, tomini tang, dispar Anthias, wrasse, Mandarin? I have a 180 G but no coral yet - solutions to get rid of it?

 

[Tahoe61]

Sure looks like it unfortunately.

 

[Humblefish]

It does look like uronema, on that first chromis: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

 

[bryan3536]

It does look like uronema, on that first chromis: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

Yeah, thanks, I have been reading through all of your posts on the subject. Gutted. 4 months into tank, this is tough to take.

I was about to add coral, though maybe the fact that I didn't is a blessing in disguise. I guess the question is what should I do? From what I'm reading, once a fish is showing symptoms it's pretty much all she wrote. Looks like Chromis, clowns, other damsels, and anthias can all be more susceptible. What about gobys, wrasses, tangs and mandarins? Should I treat entire DT, since I have no coral? What about my inverts? - any meds that are ok to treat with them in tank?

As I said, gutted.

 

[Big G]

Going "fallow" doesn't work with this disease. The tank needs to be sterilized. Fish need to go into a QT: Acriflavine bath then into the QT with Copper and Metro. Sorry.

 

[Humblefish]

@bryan3536 I would avoid the susceptible species you mentioned. I don't think I've ever seen uronema on a tang, angel, gramma, goby, blenny, wrasse. So, lots of other fish to choose from.

Only other option is to sterilize the tank with bleach.

 

[bryan3536]

@bryan3536 I would avoid the susceptible species you mentioned. I don't think I've ever seen uronema on a tang, angel, gramma, goby, blenny, wrasse. So, lots of other fish to choose from.

Only other option is to sterilize the tank with bleach.

Thanks, going to be tough though w two kids who want Clowns in the tank.

 

[bryan3536]

@Humblefish is there such a thing as a uronema outbreak? I’m trying to determine the root cause of my issue. One explanation would be that I introduced it to the tank on Saturday with the new livestock. For that to be viable, it’s got to be quick acting - I lost Chromis and a Clown by Monday. Another explanation is that it was always in the tank, and the stress of adding all the new live stock, both on the existing fish and on the new fish, sufficiently weakened their immune systems and made them susceptible to the existing parasite. I’m leaning toward that, but I guess that explanation also requires a fast acting process, since my Anthias showed symptoms by Tuesday. Of course a third explanation is both things are true - the parasite was in the tank already but the fish weren’t stressed and were fighting it off, and my Anthias was already infected when I brought it home. I’m just not sure, if that timing works. This blows. So far the big Anthias is hanging in but I haven’t been able to set up Hospital tank for it.

 

[Humblefish]

@bryan3536 Uronema marinum is a ciliate parasite which must be introduced into an aquarium. It is usually brought in on an infected fish; however it’s not impossible for some of the parasites to be loosely attached to a rock, sand, coral, invert taken from an infected aquarium.

 

[bryan3536]

@bryan3536 Uronema marinum is a ciliate parasite which must be introduced into an aquarium. It is usually brought in on an infected fish; however it’s not impossible for some of the parasites to be loosely attached to a rock, sand, coral, invert taken from an infected aquarium.

Understood. What I guess I was asking was whether there are conditions that make them more active or multiply. When I added fish I dramatically on Saturday I also nearly doubled food to tank next two days - I doubled livestock and with Anthias started feeding multiple times per day. It was a thought that if they were already in tank, maybe that triggers them to multiply, and that’s why I suddenly saw spike.

 

[4FordFamily]

@bryan3536 I would avoid the susceptible species you mentioned. I don't think I've ever seen uronema on a tang, angel, gramma, goby, blenny, wrasse. So, lots of other fish to choose from.

Only other option is to sterilize the tank with bleach.

I agree I just stopped keeping chromis and I was fine. Never had any issues other than with maybe 1/5 pearlscale or copperband butterflies.

I keep tangs, angels, wrasse, gobies, and foxface mostly so it’s a non-issue!

I’ve never had any issue with my ocellaris clownfish, either.

 

[Humblefish]

Understood. What I guess I was asking was whether there are conditions that make them more active or multiply. When I added fish I dramatically on Saturday I also nearly doubled food to tank next two days - I doubled livestock and with Anthias started feeding multiple times per day. It was a thought that if they were already in tank, maybe that triggers them to multiply, and that’s why I suddenly saw spike.

Uronema can use organic debris/detritus as sustenance, so adding more food/fish waste will fuel them.

 

[bryan3536]

Uronema can use organic debris/detritus as sustenance, so adding more food/fish waste will fuel them.

So bit of a quandary. My large Anthias is the only fish that still shows signs of Uronema - those that remain seem fine, including my last three chromis. The affected area on her body got bigger overnight Wednesday/Thursday, and my plan was to get her into a hospital tank and take a shot at medicating her last night. Worst case she died there and not in DT. However spot looks like it’s getting smaller/less red yesterday and today, and she seems comfortable in the tank, swimming to all areas of the 180g. Now I’m wondering if I should let her go and see if she fights it off herself, as I’m worried the stress of catching her and putting her into a new QT might do more harm than good. “Do no harm, etc.”

 

[Humblefish]

So bit of a quandary. My large Anthias is the only fish that still shows signs of Uronema - those that remain seem fine, including my last three chromis. The affected area on her body got bigger overnight Wednesday/Thursday, and my plan was to get her into a hospital tank and take a shot at medicating her last night. Worst case she died there and not in DT. However spot looks like it’s getting smaller/less red yesterday and today, and she seems comfortable in the tank, swimming to all areas of the 180g. Now I’m wondering if I should let her go and see if she fights it off herself, as I’m worried the stress of catching her and putting her into a new QT might do more harm than good. “Do no harm, etc.”

If its getting better without treatment, I would reconsider uronema diagnosis.

A gram positive bacterial infection can look similar and that is something a fish's natural immune system can usually remedy on its own: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacterial-infections.191511/

 

[bryan3536]

If its getting better without treatment, I would reconsider uronema diagnosis.

A gram positive bacterial infection can look similar and that is something a fish's natural immune system can usually remedy on its own: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacterial-infections.191511/

So really bummed today. My large anthias seemed liked it was recovering. The redness had disappeared, and looked like it was healing. The fish was active and eating well the last three days. I came home from work this evening, though, and this is what I found. Netted her, will take pictures out of tank in a bit.

 

[Humblefish]

@bryan3536 Best treatment would be NFG powder: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Second best is Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex all used together.

An acriflavine bath, administered before the fish goes into QT, might be useful to help slow down the infection: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/

 

[bryan3536]

@bryan3536 Best treatment would be NFG powder: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Second best is Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex all used together.

An acriflavine bath, administered before the fish goes into QT, might be useful to help slow down the infection: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately it didn’t make it. The infection lulled me into a sense that it was something else or the fish was fighting things off. I was going to put the fish in QT last Thursday night, but the redness had abated and the fish was eating and swimming the whole of the tank (had been previously staying in one corner). This continued right until yesterday - it was active, redness was gone, etc., then Bam! Looked horribly sick in 24 hours.

If this is Uronema, and I think it is, then I firmly believe it is in every one of our tanks, and you are kidding yourself if you think it’s not. I have read hundreds of posts and articles over the last two weeks. The mortality rate of Chromis in the supply chain is shocking, and largely due to this parasite. Chromis is a ubiquitous fish, sold by everyone. I think you have to conclude that every ornamental fish supplier and LFS has Unronema in its system - it is too prevalent among Chromis, and Chromis too popular a fish, and the “solution” of total tear down too extreme for any supplier or LFS to be able to deal with.

I also believe if you think you are controlling this with QT, you may be kidding yourself. You can quarantine and treat your fish, but are you able to follow same protocol with your inverts with the same drugs? What about your corals - are you confident it’s not in the exoskeleton or tissues of them?

I’m not trying to freak people out, just the opposite - I think it is more common than we realize, and that there is some kind of trigger that makes it more active or makes fish less able to fight it off. I’m wondering if my water change somehow triggered this - by temporarily depleting the amount of beneficial bacteria in my system, did I cause the parasite to look to a fish host? I don’t know. For now I’m going to keep things stable, not add more livestock, and see where things stand in a month or so.

 

[Humblefish]

@bryan3536 This explains how to QT corals/inverts: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-to-quarantine-coral-and-inverts.228/

For uronema, simply pouring DT water over the coral/invert (and into a bucket to be discarded) will “rinse away” any free floating parasites. Uronema has a direct lifecycle, so it does not encyst (stick to corals/inverts) like ich & velvet can. Therefore, the trick is to keep any uronema infested water out of your DT, and treat any fish suspected of carrying the parasite. The parasites do latch onto fish to feed, so using a chemical (Chloroquine, metronidazole, formalin) in the water is the best way to kill them.

 

[Talo’s Reef]

@bryan3536 This explains how to QT corals/inverts: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-to-quarantine-coral-and-inverts.228/

For uronema, simply pouring DT water over the coral/invert (and into a bucket to be discarded) will “rinse away” any free floating parasites. Uronema has a direct lifecycle, so it does not encyst (stick to corals/inverts) like ich & velvet can. Therefore, the trick is to keep any uronema infested water out of your DT, and treat any fish suspected of carrying the parasite. The parasites do latch onto fish to feed, so using a chemical (Chloroquine, metronidazole, formalin) in the water is the best way to kill them.

I guess I’m confused. The only way to get rid of uronema is to sterilize the tank. What if I successfully treat the disease on a fish in QT, how then do I prevent the parasite from entering my display. Is rinsing the fish in display water enough just like coral. The fact that I successfully treated the fish would be enough to say the entire tank was eradicated if no reinfection occurred.

 

[Lebreton33]

@Humblefish hi...need your expertise! Is this Uronema? Had 3 pictilis from DD in qt for 3 weeks. Observed and treated with two rounds of prazi. All looked perfect so moved to 4 month old 300 gallon DT last Thursday. Only other fish in DT are 7 wrasses, all look perfect (and have since coming into DT). Yesterday morning I noticed a spot, looked like a scrape on one of the female anthias. Looks like a red spot in the pic but not at all to the eye. Hasn’t gotten worse since yesterday morning when I first saw it. She’s still out, very active and eating like a pig. Feeding two times daily. What do you think? Thanks!