Is this Velvet?

[Neptune 555]

Uggh Is this Velvet? Photo taken at night as I was checking on fish... after mystery death yesterday of pygmy angel in QT. Ammonia alert reads yellow. He is breathing heavy. I was treating with PraziPro bc he had white stringy poops. I have two other fish left in QT. A starry blenny and a green clown goby.

 

[Triggreef]

No, if your looking at a fairy wrasse at night.... they don't sleep in the sand like most wrasses, instead they secrete a mucus membrane layer to help with hiding their scent from preditors.

Sometimes you'll see the mucus bubbles floating around the tank during the day.

 

[Neptune 555]

so my starry blenny is not going to eat my wrasse? As my 3 remaining fish sleep together? I have never woke up in the middle of the night to check on my fish before.... but losing a fish last night has put me on high alert. Yes the wrasse moved out of his mucus bubble and looks better. Still seems to be breathing heavy?? We are on day 12 of TTM and second dose of prazi pro.

 

[Neptune 555]

@ meredith & @ humblefish,

I *think* my wrasse has flukes. I have had him for 20 days and we are on day 17 of TTM and my second treatment of prazi pro. He is still breathing heavy? As wrasses are sensitive to prazi pro any recommendations on a treatment? I can see it in the photo above his mouth is open? I wish I knew how to post a video for you... his respiration seems to difficult. It cant be anything else besides flukes at this point correct? No white spots? and I lost a fish yesterday in QT with prazi and prime? I did a partial water change to be safe.. and I did not add in more prazi pro.

My two other fish seem fine? Can I place them in the DT or must I keep them all together for more treatment?

Neptune

 

[Humblefish]

@Neptune 555 Unless due to exertion, the only reason a fish should be breathing heavy is if caused by an environmental factor or disease in the gills. The difficulty here is he might just be breathing heavy due to prazi in the water (environmental factor). When did you last dose Prazipro?

FYI, you can always check for flukes simply by doing a FW dip (more info below).

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes & "Black Ich", Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

 

[Neptune 555]

Humble fish thanks!

I dosed the second dose of prazipro on Monday Aug 15th during my 4th and final TTM I also used prime. Sadly my pygmy angel fish died overnight- otherwise this angel had been doing great the entire time and showed no symptoms. On Aug 16th I did a 40% water change. I did not add prime or prazi pro. The entire time in QT the Wrasse has breathed heavy. I just did a freshwater dip as you suggested. I used a dark blue bucket. I do not think flukes came out? Or if they did they were so super tiny that I could not identify them. Certainly not like the photo of flukes posted by Meredith.

So tomorrow they should go into the DT. Do I add all the fish? Do I hold the Wrasse back? I think the QR process is not as comfy as their forever home and am wondering if placing him in a better home will have him more comfortable?

BTW after the freshwater dip of exactly 5 mins.. I put him back in the QT. He is sitting at the bottom breathing heavy? I don't want to mess with him anymore. He is upright? Or do I need to swim in through the water - I thought that was if they were not able to hold themself upright?

Neptune

 

[Neptune 555]

Wrasse is breathing heavy after freshwater dip.. and sitting on bottom of tank. How long will this last? I think he is not going to make it after freshwater dip?

neptune

 

[Neptune 555]

 

[Humblefish]

So tomorrow they should go into the DT. Do I add all the fish? Do I hold the Wrasse back? I think the QR process is not as comfy as their forever home and am wondering if placing him in a better home will have him more comfortable?

Has the wrasse recovered? I would not put ANY of these fish into your DT until you get to bottom of this. Since the FW dip showed no flukes, it's possible these fish have velvet (or some other disease.) TTM only treats ich, not velvet.

More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

 

[Neptune 555]

Yes he has recovered.. and he has eaten. He is still breathing hard. If it were velvet wouldn't it already show up? I have PVC pipes in my QT tank and he is not hiding from the light.. and he is eating. I was thinking that my bare bottom PVC tank was part of the culprit. He is stressed b/c he is in a QT tank and not a DT? I did remove 50% of the water and did a water change... I might just transfer them to a new QT tank so that I can be sure no ammonia. The other fish look great. Blenny and a goby. How does he look to you? He has a tiny mark on the side of his body but honestly with all the TTM could it be a scratch? Poor guy.. I think the DT is just not solid established enough for him?

 

[melypr1985]

Yes he has recovered.. and he has eaten. He is still breathing hard. If it were velvet wouldn't it already show up? I have PVC pipes in my QT tank and he is not hiding from the light.. and he is eating. I was thinking that my bare bottom PVC tank was part of the culprit. He is stressed b/c he is in a QT tank and not a DT? I did remove 50% of the water and did a water change... I might just transfer them to a new QT tank so that I can be sure no ammonia. The other fish look great. Blenny and a goby. How does he look to you? He has a tiny mark on the side of his body but honestly with all the TTM could it be a scratch? Poor guy.. I think the DT is just not solid established enough for him?

Fish can act weird for a bit after a freshwater dip, but will usually recover soon after. I'm glad to see yours did! I would certainly think that velvet would have shown up by now, though with a wrasse like this it can be difficult to tell. They have a thick mucus coat that helps them stave off some of the symptoms. It's very possible that it's in there, and until you've figured it out I wouldn't put any of those fish into the DT.

The cut could have come from the pvc. Some of the edges of these pvc pieces can be pretty sharp. Are you already feeding with vitamins in the food? If so, then I would focus my energy to figuring out the breathing issue before worrying about the tiny nick. Just keep an eye on it for now.

 

[Humblefish]

Because you were doing TTM and transferring the fish every 3 days, you might have outran the bulk of the velvet tomonts and subsequent dinospores. But a few keep getting transferred over. My suggestion to you (and you won't hear me recommend this often) is to dose formalin into the QT 1 hour before making the next transfer. Let's see if that can knock out whatever this is.

 

[Humblefish]

Formalin: Treats Brooklynella and provides temporary relief for Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium). Also may be used as temporary relief, or even as an alternative treatment, for worms such as flukes and black ich.

How To Treat - Formalin is very interesting because its potential is not fully known. It is best administered in a bath solution for 30-45 minutes, following the dosage instructions on whatever bottle you use; or at 150 ppm if using "100% formalin" (ex. Formalin-MS). The bath should be done in a large glass bowl or container, and temperature should match the tank the fish is coming from. A bucket is not advised as plastic may absorb some of the medication and then leach it back out during future use. It is imperative that you heavily aerate the bath solution for at least 30 minutes before and also during treatment to compensate for oxygen depletion. The fish should be placed in a premixed bath solution. DO NOT add more formalin after the fish is already in the bath.

For Brooklynella, multiple baths may be required (so long as symptoms persist), but it’s important to give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths. Formalin has also been used as alternative treatment for external worms such as flukes and black ich. However, at least 2 baths are required (7 days apart) for the same reason described when using Prazipro. For all of the above, post treatment, the fish should not be returned to the same tank/water he came from to prevent reinfection.

You can dose formalin directly in a quarantine tank, but this can be risky due to the harshness of formalin and how quickly it can deplete the water of oxygen. Providing additional gas exchange to the QT is a must! A fish being treated must be monitored closely and should be removed if showing signs of distress - this applies when treating in QT or in the bath solution.

Pros - Treats or provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases. In some cases, formalin can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Formalin contains formaldehyde, a known carcinogen. Therefore, precautions must be taken when using it. Preventing your skin from coming in contact with it by wearing water proof gloves and not breathing in any fumes by wearing a face mask is highly recommended. Formalin also can be harsh on the fish and will quickly deplete oxygen from the water. In some areas, the purchase of formalin is prohibited.

 

[Neptune 555]

I decided to put the fish in my DT last night. I thought about the comment that fish breath heavy for 2 reasons and decided that my QT was the problem and my DT could provide a much nicer environment. This was also based on the fact that I had 3 fish in QT and only 1 fish in my DT a clown fish hosting to a BTA. I could lose all three in a QT? Or possibly introduce a pathogen to my DT and lose one additional fish + fallow period. I decided to put him in and woke up this morning to a happy wrasse swimming and breathing fine! I think it was the stupid Prime and Prazi mix!

 

[Neptune 555]

Wrasse has ich. It doesn't look like velvet it is clearly 3 spots at this point on my wrasse who thankfully is eating. I am just about to quit... If they live I will manage with ich and follow the advice of Paul B and continue good feeding. If they die I am selling my tanks.

Neptune

My head is spinning ... The ich MUST have already been in the DT? It never showed up in QT? and then within 24 hours of being in DT it shows up? and yes it would hit the wrasse first b/c he was stressed in QT. The other fish still look good.

 

[Neptune 555]

can you visually confirm ich? See the two spots on his fin?

 

[melypr1985]

Could be, could also be lymph. Didn't he go through TTM? Wasn't your display fallow while this happened? I'm trying to remember....

 

[Humblefish]

Can you get a larger (closeup) photo? Are you sure its not just sand stuck to his mucous coat? Wrasses come equipped with a pretty thick slime coat and this will often collect debris in the water. You should see it dangle off if this is sand.

 

[Neptune 555]

I am watching him closely... Yes I think it is debris attached to him versus ich? and he is still eating. My tank went fallow about 4 years ago. I have super careful since but yes a few snails and a cleaner shrimp went in with out a full QT? I *think* my DT is ich free but was alarmed to see the spots. He seems pretty happy and is breathing normal. I am watching.. thanks for your support!

Neptune