Is this what they call "Cooked"?

[jiminy_crime]

The first pic is of some SPS directly under my Kessil 360s. This is a Red Sea 350 and is 20" deep with lights 12" off water line. I had them set at 40% color and 65% intensity and then decided to turn up the whites and went to 60% on the color. Still trying to learn the Kessils, I didn't realize the more white light came with a higher PAR. So pretty sure I bleached my SPS and wondering if the Monti will come back or will it progressively worsen? 50% of the monti is white-ish with the edges still red. Also had some acros that when completely white and some tips that went white. They were frags so not huge loss but still my tank looks rough at the moment.

Here is a pic of another red cap montipora that is growing in tank but is offset from the two lights. It is not bleached.

 

[Rick.45cal]

What are your parameter?

 

[jiminy_crime]

8.8 dKH
Ca 490
Mg 1320
20 ppm NO3..let it rise as I was at 0...trying to bring down a hair to 10ppm.
0 ppm PO4
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78.5
ORP 410
pH 8.19
No dosing just top off with Kalk.

All Params have been stable for about 2 months now.

 

[jsker]

What are you feeding the tank?

 

[Rick.45cal]

You've got phosphate deficiency. The splotchy whitening areas of the monti are a dead give away to a pest or 0 phosphate with lots of NO3 present.

 

[jiminy_crime]

PE mysis, RODS food, brine shrimp. Just rotate and feed twice a day.

I doubt its pests as these were transferred from my smaller pest free tank to new tank. I'll give it to you though my last tank I ran on NOPOX and wanted to attempt to run this tank off of Nopox. I did take my GFO reactor off line to let them rise a hair.

The white started after I turned up my whites on my Kessils. Pretty sure I bleached them somehow with lighting.

 

[Rick.45cal]

The lighting increase did exactly that. The symptoms of the bleaching event tell the difference between a NO3 deficiency and a PO4 deficiency. The PO4 deficiency will involve permanent tissue damage and often times coral mortalitly. It's actually magnified by the increased nitrates. It appears in monti's as splotchy patterns that will turn into lost tissue then colony death if it's not corrected.

Turning down the lights is a good start, feeding heavy and getting some phosphate in the water will help prevent further damage, but you can't expect the corals to just bounce back like they do from a bleaching event due to both nutrients being depeted or even just NO3 being too low. The consequences are slightly different based upon your set of circumstances. It's going to take some time for things to recover, but if you don't correct the situation things will continue to decline

 

[Rick.45cal]

If you have been Carbon dosing to bring your nitrates down lower where you want them, then you will likely need to dose some form of phosphate in order to get you out of the situation you are in, there's likely a built up surplus of the carbon source, which compounds the above issues that I outlined. Feeding likely won't get you out of this situation quick enough, so you may consider something like NeoPhos by brightwell aquatics. (I have had used it myself)

 

[jiminy_crime]

If you have been Carbon dosing to bring your nitrates down lower where you want them, then you will likely need to dose some form of phosphate in order to get you out of the situation you are in, there's likely a built up surplus of the carbon source, which compounds the above issues that I outlined. Feeding likely won't get you out of this situation quick enough, so you may consider something like NeoPhos by brightwell aquatics. (I have had used it myself)

Came home to another acro with flesh dangling off the acro. Is that burned by the LEDs? Or would high Nitrates cause flesh to fall off like that?

 

[DHill6]

Following, I just had the same thing happen

 

[petemichelle]

following

 

[Christopher Davis]

Get your intensity down for startes! I bleached all my corals the exact same way! I had to start over and turn the intensity up to 70% over the course of 4 months.

 

[botheboss]

With my little experience with sps one thing I've learned is if you see something wrong it's often to late. Best chance to save is frag before rtn's totally. Not a very forgiving coral.

 

[Rick.45cal]

Did you have an alkalinity spike, that seems to cause RTN more than anything else that I've noticed. Though it could still be related.

It's not because your nitrates are "too high". They are actually fine. It's the absence of PO4 in the presence of Nitrates that is really bad. All you need is a little bit of phosphates, and to maintain them, and things will thrive.

The damage caused by Phosphate deficiency in the presence of high light with available nitrate is actual physical damage to the corals. Where a NO3 deficiency results in a bleaching event that is more like a sunburn. Neither one is great, but the phosphate one is worse.

So, the goal is you need to get some trace amounts of phosphate in your system, either through feeding of foods high in Phosphorus (or potash) and I personally would still dose some source of phosphate, to stop the event from continuing. I would also test daily and dose daily until I had consistent detectable amounts present in the water. I also wouldn't sweat my NO3 level, I'd try and keep it between 5-15 ppm and you are safe. (Turn down your lights a bit, and gradually work them back up once phosphate and nitrate are both detectable, you can increase intensity slightly every 7 days.)

I also still wouldn't rule out pests!

Make sure you don't have any alkalinity spikes! Everything needs to stay VERY stable from here on out, so things can actively recover.

 

[1stNoel]

I have both Kessil AP700s & 360WEs.

Yes, you're cooking them. I was talking to the Kessil team at this past weekend's Reefapalooza.

He says you need to follow the acclimation process. If you take a coral that's been grown under a different light and then place them under a Kessil, the abundance of light it's receiving is equivalent to trying to eating a buffet in one bite and choking on it.

You need to dial down the intensity.

I also keep undetectable traces of NO3 & PO4, but I dose Reef Energy and feed heavy.

 

[K100286]

1stNoel: what did the Kessil people say about how much light intensity is too much, if anything. I have 1 ap700's. The 2 on my 150 gal. started out at 60% and I increased them to 80% with the result being a lot of burnt and dead corals(sps). I am down to 40% and every thing is looking much better. I am wondering if these lights need to be keep on a low intensity setting.

 

[madweazl]

I cant help in regard to the PO4 and NO3 numbers; all I can say is my NO3 is roughly 5ppm (Red Sea kit) and my PO4 is .028 (Hanna ULR) with dKH of 6.94. PAR results were measured with an Apogee MQ510 using a full spectrum sensor (1.32 correction factor). Lights (2x 360WE) are mounted 5" above the water with 65% color (two hour ramps on both ends) and 40% intensity (parabola on six hour curves). This has been enough to sustain and grow everything in the tank.

Acro literally came back from the dead with just a tiny piece of living tissue on it.


PAR measurements


Take it for what it is worth.

PS: this is a pic of that same monti on the right back in December; NO3 was roughly the same but PO4 had increased substantially; this same event literally killed that acro above; I couldnt see any living tissue on it but it came back.

 

[1stNoel]

1stNoel: what did the Kessil people say about how much light intensity is too much, if anything. I have 1 ap700's. The 2 on my 150 gal. started out at 60% and I increased them to 80% with the result being a lot of burnt and dead corals(sps). I am down to 40% and every thing is looking much better. I am wondering if these lights need to be keep on a low intensity setting.

It depends on how high the light is mounted above the waterline.

I had mine mounted 7" above the waterline and running it at 100%, but not every coral responded well to that intensity. Examples: Hulk Lepto, Rainbow Monti, Meteor Shower, Acans, and any mushroom either bleached or melted. SPS sticks, zoas, chalices, monti caps, and euphyllia all did well.

I have since raised the lights to 14" up, to make sure I can support all the corals above and still run the lights at 100%. I like the way the corals pop at that intensity.

Bottom line: treat these lights like they're metal hallides.

Here are two things I was told by Kessil (David is the name of the rep) that should help all Kessil owners:

1. Question: Does the Deep Ocean Blue setting provide the best spectrum for coral coloration? Answer: For viewing, you can go strictly Deep Ocean Blue; but for actual color development, he said to pick between 7:00 and 9:00 on the color wheel. If you like the darkest blue, then manually add +15 of Red and +10 Green to get the best spectrum for coloration.
2. Question: I run a 10-hour schedule with maximum intensity for a 4-hour period. Is this the optimal schedule? Answer: He recommended a 12-hour schedule with 8 hours of maximum intensity. Please note: this is based on what your current maximum is. In your case, current maximum is 40%.

 

[K100286]

1stNoel: Thank you. It looks we both learned a lesson, but expensive. My lights have been set 11in. above the water line, but still too strong at 70-80%.
Last question. Do you know why there is a difference in color when you increase the intensity even though I believe the spectrum is the same?

 

[1stNoel]

No worries. Ask away.

I feel there is a general lack of information out there about this light, so it's great to see the reefing community speaking up. Just understand that I'm by no means an expert.

To your question, I could take it to mean two different things. So I'll answer both.

If you meant, why do the corals pop more at the higher intensity? I assume it's because the higher intensity allows more light to penetrate to the bottom. On my light schedule, the intensity changes from 100% to 50%. When this happens, you can visibly notice the light dim.

If you meant, why is coral coloration affected by which color setting you pick? The blue peaks remains relatively the same regardless of which color setting you pick, but the other colors on the spectrum are affected by which color you choose. BRSTV makes an excellent video covering this topic. At 24 minutes in, they actually show how the spectrum changes as you move along the colorwheel.