Issue with water chemistry

DannyB · Mar 13, 2016

I tried sending this directly to @Randy Holmes-Farley but it would not let me send it.

This started with the thread Pale Zoas.

My parameters are all from this afternoon.

Ammonia 0 Salifert
Nitrite 0 API
Nitrate 0.1 Salifert
PO4 0.012 Salifert
Cal 375 Salifert
Alk 8.7 Hanna
Mag 1500 Salifert
Salinity 1.025 Refractometer
Temp 77.1 ReefAngel Probe
pH 8.43 ReefAngel Probe
Iodine 0.06 Red Sea
Iron 0 Red Sea

Sorry if some are not necessary.

So I was wondering about my zoas being pale thinking it was due to lighting (DIY; 16 CW 5w, 16 RB 5w, 8 UV 3w, 4 green 5w, 4 red 5w, all 50% power 10 hours a day) but it was brought up that my water chemistry may be an issue and not the lighting.

The concern was how high the Magnesium is and how low Nitrates are. Magnesium is not dosed and is kept at 1500 by my WCs only. So i am not sure how to get it lower and I didn't think it was a problem being at that level.

I know my Cal is low at this time but it just recently started to deplete do to my SPS finally starting to grow now that my Alk stays at the same KH. The Cal will be brought up and maintained with a doser now.

Nitrates have historically been undetectable via Salifert test kit and have recently gotten to 0.1 due to increased feedings because I have a wrasse which requires multiple feedings.

I do have Cyano in my DT which I have struggled with for a long time. Probably why the Nitrates are so low all the time.

I recently started running GFO because the PO4 was too high, you probably don't remember talking to me about this in a previous thread.

So I basically want to know if you see any issues with my water chemistry and what you would suggest as a solution. If you need any other information which I haven't provided just let me know what info and I will provide it.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Cory · Mar 13, 2016

I would think your sps is growing not so much for stable alk, but lower po4 from using gfo. How high was it before?

Are you basing you water chemistry on weather or not zoas are opening?

jsker · Mar 13, 2016

Give it time. You have done a few things so let what you did settle in. I would say feed, feed and get you nitrates up. I just change out my lighting 2 weeks ago and boy my browning corals are coming back. also looking into the balling method and that my help you balance things out.

DannyB · Mar 13, 2016

Cory said:
I would think your sps is growing not so much for stable alk, but lower po4 from using gfo. How high was it before?

Are you basing you water chemistry on weather or not zoas are opening?

Phosphate wasn't off the chart before. Undetectable with Salifert so close to 0.03. I am not basing my water chemistry on my zoas, they have been pale for a long time and asked in the zoa forum what could cause this thinking it would be a lighting issue but everyone seemed more concerned with my lack of Nitrate and surplus of Mag.

jsker said:
Give it time. You have done a few things so let what you did settle in. I would say feed, feed and get you nitrates up. I just change out my lighting 2 weeks ago and boy my browning corals are coming back. also looking into the balling method and that my help you balance things out.

I am only trying to ask Randy if I should be concerned with these 2 numbers. I am more interested in the recent success of my sps than the lack luster color on my zoas, but if i need to address the Magnesium level then I need to know about it.

jsker · Mar 13, 2016

DannyB said:
Phosphate wasn't off the chart before. Undetectable with Salifert so close to 0.03. I am not basing my water chemistry on my zoas, they have been pale for a long time and asked in the zoa forum what could cause this thinking it would be a lighting issue but everyone seemed more concerned with my lack of Nitrate and surplus of Mag.

I am only trying to ask Randy if I should be concerned with these 2 numbers. I am more interested in the recent success of my sps than the lack luster color on my zoas, but if i need to address the Magnesium level then I need to know about it.

I was just saying, just give it time. That was one of the first things I was told when I got back into reefing. Make one adjustment wait to see if something happens. Make another adjustment and wait for something to happens. That was my point about waiting. No you should not be concerned with these number. You know your ca is low, and as in regards to magnesium once you get your ca back up to 440'ish you magnesium will balance out. another suggestion I made was the balling method, I used to go through these swings and not they have stopped. @Randy Holmes-Farley is the master as you know and this is only my thoughts

DannyB · Mar 13, 2016

I was using Kalk to maintain alk and cal previously and over several months the calcium climbed too high and the alk would always fluctuate. I decided to move to dosing pumps but have only been running the alk until the calcium lowered because it was over 500. Didn't expect it to get this low that quickly so now I will run the calcium doser to keep it steady. You think once it is at a steady # the Mag will come down? Chemistry is not my strong suit.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 13, 2016

I really do not think 1500 ppm magnesium will lead to problems for either zooanthids or SPS.

If you have not dosed any, it is coming from the salt mix so water changes cannot help unless you change mixes. But the value may not be accurate anyway. What salt mix are you using?

The corals may be pale for lack of nutrients (both inorganic and possibly natural organic foods to catch). So I might let the nutrients begin to rise a bit and see if that helps.

DannyB · Mar 13, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I really do not think 1500 ppm magnesium will lead to problems for either zooanthids or SPS.

If you have not dosed any, it is coming from the salt mix so water changes cannot help unless you change mixes. But the value may not be accurate anyway. What salt mix are you using?

The corals may be pale for lack of nutrients (both inorganic and possibly natural organic foods to catch). So I might let the nutrients begin to rise a bit and see if that helps.

I am using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt.

I have been trying to feed 3 times a day for my wrasse which is at least letting the Nitrate come up to 0.1 which is usually undetectable.

With letting the nutrients build up a bit, will this end up making my cyano issue worse? I don't really have any issues with algae other than film on the glass.

Also thank you for taking the time to look at this.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 13, 2016

Yes, it may make cyano worse, but 0.1 ppm nitrate may still be on the low side. Maybe dosing some nitrate will allow it to rise and maybe impact cyano less than more food would.

DannyB · Mar 13, 2016

I have never dosed Nitrate before. Do you have an article on it?

Hunter S Thompson · Mar 13, 2016

There seems to be a theme behind cyano and unhealthy Zoas, even when it doesn't LOOK like the cyano is on the zoas. Maybe a seporate but related bacterial infection? Check out this thread in the Zoa forum: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chemiclean-the-key-to-healthy-zoas.154048/

Cory · Mar 13, 2016

Maybe what they need is some food to get their nutrients. Have you tried phyto or rotifers?

I wouldnt be trying to raise low nutrients.

DannyB · Mar 14, 2016

Hunter S Thompson said:
There seems to be a theme behind cyano and unhealthy Zoas, even when it doesn't LOOK like the cyano is on the zoas. Maybe a seporate but related bacterial infection? Check out this thread in the Zoa forum: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chemiclean-the-key-to-healthy-zoas.154048/

I used chemiclean in my first tank many many years ago but know i am unsure on using it on my entire tank due to knowing it is an antibiotic and would rather keep as many beneficial bacterial strains as possible. However, I may not be against using it as a dip like stated in that thread, just never heard of this before.

Cory said:
Maybe what they need is some food to get their nutrients. Have you tried phyto or rotifers?

I wouldnt be trying to raise low nutrients.

I have not tried either phyto or rotifers. I actually tried to get some phyto from my LFS last i was in there but he no longer carries it and was not going to order and stock anymore. I have actually wanted to raise copepods so am looking for phyto so i can do this. I don't think i want to raise rotifers though. I do feed my tank ROE, not sure if zoas will consume them or not and I do feed Rod's coral food occasionally.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 14, 2016

DannyB said:
I have never dosed Nitrate before. Do you have an article on it?

I do not have an article with dosing details, but here are two current threads with numerous results:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/potassium-nitrate-spectracide-stump-remover-dosing-steps.215730

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/starting-to-dose-nitrate.235096

DannyB · Mar 14, 2016

Thank you for your help

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 14, 2016

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

DannyB · Mar 14, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

One other question pertaining to a previous post. What are your thoughts on chemiclean? I know it has results but i also know it is antibiotic. I noticed a few dead heads on my duncan today and a couple others covered in cyano and it is growing up the stalks of some zoas and is on a couple sps as well. It seems to be more than an eyesore and may need some intervention.