It's 2016, where is the ich vaccine?

[jeremy.gosnell]

jeremy.gosnell submitted a new Article:

It's 2016, where is the ich vaccine?

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In 2010, Dr. Dhai Xu of the American Chemical Association stated, “Outbreaks of external parasitic disease can result in losses of 50-100% of aquarium livestock.” He went on to say that marine and freshwater ich are so common, that nearly every home aquarist or commercial aquaculture facility has been effected by it. Xu reminded everyone that once an external parasite adheres to a fish’s skin, there is really no treatment that is...

Read more about this article here...

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Nice article as usual!

 

[Humblefish]

It seems like it should be easier to develop a vaccine for Amyloodinium (velvet) before ich. Conquer the single celled dinoflagellate first before taking on a multicellular organism such as Crypto. And being velvet is far deadlier than ich..... However, I don't know how rampant velvet is in the aquafarming industry, and I assume that's who is primarily paying for vaccination research.

 

[Deinonych]

It seems like it should be easier to develop a vaccine for Amyloodinium (velvet) before ich. Conquer the single celled dinoflagellate first before taking on a multicellular organism such as Crypto. And being velvet is far deadlier than ich..... However, I don't know how rampant velvet is in the aquafarming industry, and I assume that's who is primarily paying for vaccination research.

With respect, I should point out that Cryptocaryon irritans is not multicellular. It is a unicellular eukaryote, whereas Amyloodinium ocellatum is a dinoflagellate (also unicellular) as you noted.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

Interestingly the article where this information said something along the lines of "Multi-cellular parasites are more difficult to produce in controlled atmospheres than viruses." Not sure if they mis-spoke about marine-ich or were simply comparing producing ich to multi-cellular organisms.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

It seems like it should be easier to develop a vaccine for Amyloodinium (velvet) before ich. Conquer the single celled dinoflagellate first before taking on a multicellular organism such as Crypto. And being velvet is far deadlier than ich..... However, I don't know how rampant velvet is in the aquafarming industry, and I assume that's who is primarily paying for vaccination research.

From what I understand, that is primarily who is funding and directing the research. From what I found, external parasites (mainly marine and freshwater ich) cost commercial aquaculture millions each year in losses. Also, treating these parasites in large aquaculture facilities is expensive, and many treatments make it impossible to sell fish for human consumption.

 

[Humblefish]

@Deinonych You're absolutely right; found it here: https://www.researchgate.net/profil...n_irritans/links/55c0a76908aed621de13d1d3.pdf

C. irritans is a complex unicellular eukaryote that has several distinct developmental stages in its life cycle: the infective theront, the parasitic trophont, and the reproductive tomont (Bai et al., 2008).

One of the arguments I've been presented with regarding CP is that it only works on velvet, and not ich, because velvet is unicellular (and thus easier to kill). I was told this by a microbiologist ... so I guess that's why it stuck inside my head.

@jeremy.gosnell I wonder if this could be the same vaccine mentioned in your article: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aquaculture-researcher-in-hawaii.259556/#post-3078965

 

[Deinonych]

Just goes to show that even scientists make mistakes. [emoji1]

 

[saasione]

I've been using fresh Ginger for over 20 years... Works every time!!

 

[4FordFamily]

I've been using fresh Ginger for over 20 years... Works every time!!

For other readers -- ginger has never been proven to have even a remote impact on fish health, in fact if anything it's more likely to negatively impact them. The success with things like this is your fish building natural resistance to ich over time and whatever snake oil in question gets the credit for the fish's own immune system. Some fish (maybe 1/2 or so common in this hobby) can do this naturally.

Had it been paprika you would have had the same result.

 

[Deinonych]

I've been using fresh Ginger for over 20 years... Works every time!!

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[saasione]

For other readers -- ginger has never been proven to have even a remote impact on fish health, in fact if anything it's more likely to negatively impact them. The success with things like this is your fish building natural resistance to ich over time and whatever snake oil in question gets the credit for the fish's own immune system. Some fish (maybe 1/2 or so common in this hobby) can do this naturally.

Had it been paprika you would have had the same result.

Thanks for the "snake oil" comment... Let me guess, you also think or believe that there isn't any use ( or evidence or research) for the numerous garlic remedies or commercially produced garlic products on the market?? All I can tell you is it has worked every time over the past 20 years for me. You should try it.

 

[Humblefish]

Garlic vs. Ginger would make for an interesting thread.

 

[saasione]

Obvious troll is obvious.

I thought that this was a kind, open community where everyone was welcome to add to the latest topic of the day? Now I'm being called a "troll"? I shall bite my tongue and refrain from calling you names Deinonych! Have a nice evening...

 

[Deinonych]

https://reefs.com/forum/reefs-magazine/77954-skeptical-reefkeeping-richard-ross.html

 

[saasione]

https://reefs.com/forum/reefs-magazine/77954-skeptical-reefkeeping-richard-ross.html

Great article! Great read. Thanks for the link.
I still stand by what I said about ginger. It has always worked for me for over 20 years. I also might add that I still take offense to bring called a "troll" Deinonych!

 

[reefwiser]

It would be good for the hobby is someone did a research project on Garlic and Ginger's effect on Ich. Thus proving or disproving effectiveness.
Say something works for you for 20 years doesn't make it a scientific fact thou. An the fishkeeping hobby is full of products that do little but people
think they work so they use them. Saasione, its not unfriendly it just has not been proven to do anything and might stop a hobbyist from using something that has been scientific shown to work.

 

[lisawolk]

jeremy.gosnell submitted a new Article:

It's 2016, where is the ich vaccine?



Read more about this article here...

And whoever does find a cure for it will be a multi-millionaire. (Says in her head...."must find cure....").

 

[lisawolk]

I've been using fresh Ginger for over 20 years... Works every time!!

Out with the garlic and in with the ginger now? (Scratches head).

 

[lisawolk]

It would be good for the hobby is someone did a research project on Garlic and Ginger's effect on Ich. Thus proving or disproving effectiveness.
Say something works for you for 20 years doesn't make it a scientific fact thou. An the fishkeeping hobby is full of products that do little but people
think they work so they use them. Saasione, its not unfriendly it just has not been proven to do anything and might stop a hobbyist from using something that has been scientific shown to work.

Agreed! Fact of the matter is if there was a "cure all" everyone in the reefing community would have it and someone would be insanely rich. Recommending a natural cure without any scientific backup is just an opinion in my book. It's very debatable just like does Echinacea really build your immune system? I do however believe in Ich management. Keeping the fish as stress free as possible & keeping the immune system beefed up so they won't succumb to the parasite but rather live with it is effective. But the Ich is still in the tank. You still are taking a gamble.

There is a great article in this forum from Humblefish that I have saved and shared with others who have successfully been managing ich as well.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=August_07_2015