I've worked at an LFS, ask me anything about them

[Lowell Lemon]

I actually built out retail store systems and aquariums for more than 25 years as my main business so I have seen a few things now and then! I do remember ordering LC containers of fish, live rock, and inverts more than a time or two. Landed cost drives the price of the livestock and this should include the shipping DOA's as well as the cost to quarantine, feed, and medicate if necessary or you will lose money on most shipments. Livestock is the biggest possibility of lost revenue in a LFS. The dry goods should carry the store not the livestock. Volume is vital or you will not keep pace with the overhead costs.

 

[A Young Reefer]

How do you maintain salinity and replace the water used for bagging livestock? I imagine that would be difficult because of constant salinity swings and not knowing the correct ratio of salt to fresh water?

 

[Tony Thompson]

I would be so annoyed if my stores did that

Why would you be so annoyed?

These are live animals we sell, we have a legal and ethical duty of care.

I know my customers and their tanks, however if you are a new customer to my store, I will ask you questions about your system and the animals you already have. I will also discretely enquire about your knowledge of a animals special care requirements if applicable.

If it is a brand new system and you are unsure about how to test a biological filtration systems efficiency or you are new to keeping aquariums, I may ask for a sample of your water for free testing, NH3 H4, Salinity, or give advice on how to test your biological filter. If you are buying corals, I will also ask for the model of lighting.

This advice and service is free of charge and is for both the animals and customers benefit. If you are annoyed at this then I would point you in the direction of the door.

The welfare of the animals I provide are far more important to me than your custom.

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

I was wondering, does anyone have any questions about some behind the scenes at an LFS? Any questions on disease, stocking, orders, or any other random questions you might have about an LFS? I figure I'd share with you all any answers I might have as to what are good and bad signs as to an LFS's quality, and what a realistic and unrealistic expectations out of your lfs. I have been to a LOT of lfs's, and some don't know what they are doing, some are lazy, and others are fantastic. I think LFS's can play a huge role in someone's interests and successes in the hobby, and I'd like to help others determine what qualities of an lfs are good coming from a behind the scenes view. I obviously can't speak for all of them, but I figured this could be a fun or helpful thread in general about them in general

PS No direct naming of stores please

Why if you ask for something, do they say “i can order it for you next Tuesday on my order day”, when amazon will have it to me tomorrow, and i dont need to make a second trip for a common basic item they should have in stock.?

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Why would you be so annoyed?

These are live animals we sell, we have a legal and ethical duty of care.

I know my customers and their tanks, however if you are a new customer to my store, I will ask you questions about your system and the animals you already have. I will also discretely enquire about your knowledge of a animals special care requirements if applicable.

If it is a brand new system and you are unsure about how to test a biological filtration systems efficiency or you are new to keeping aquariums, I may ask for a sample of your water for free testing, NH3 H4, Salinity, or give advice on how to test your biological filter. If you are buying corals, I will also ask for the model of lighting.

This advice and service is free of charge and is for both the animals and customers benefit. If you are annoyed at this then I would point you in the direction of the door.

The welfare of the animals I provide are far more important to me than your custom.

I'm on board with this.

 

[NoahLikesFish]

I was wondering, does anyone have any questions about some behind the scenes at an LFS? Any questions on disease, stocking, orders, or any other random questions you might have about an LFS? I figure I'd share with you all any answers I might have as to what are good and bad signs as to an LFS's quality, and what a realistic and unrealistic expectations out of your lfs. I have been to a LOT of lfs's, and some don't know what they are doing, some are lazy, and others are fantastic. I think LFS's can play a huge role in someone's interests and successes in the hobby, and I'd like to help others determine what qualities of an lfs are good coming from a behind the scenes view. I obviously can't speak for all of them, but I figured this could be a fun or helpful thread in general about them in general

PS No direct naming of stores please

what is the password to your wholesale account

 

[ssdawood]

Why if you ask for something, do they say “i can order it for you next Tuesday on my order day”, when amazon will have it to me tomorrow, and i dont need to make a second trip for a common basic item they should have in stock.?

I understand the convenience of ordering thru Amazon. I am guilty of it too. But if all of us did that LFS will be out of business.
Next time in an emergency if you meed something you will have to wait a day to get it.
Your fish or corals might not survive.

Moderation is key. The store was trying to help. Offering to order it for you when they placed an order. He was speaking facts.

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

I understand the convenience of ordering thru Amazon. I am guilty of it too. But if all of us did that LFS will be out of business.
Next time in an emergency if you meed something you will have to wait a day to get it.
Your fish or corals might not survive.

Moderation is key. The store was trying to help. Offering to order it for you when they placed an order. He was speaking facts.

I get your point, but many Local Fish Stores need to change their business practices if they want to stay in business, and show why you should spend your money there vs elsewhere. At any given time, you should be able to walk in and get everything you need to set up an entire system that day. They shouldn't have dead fish or Aptasia in their systems. If you bring fish that have outgrown your tank, or other livestock, they should give some store credit, not just take your “surrendered livestock”

Also, keeping such a sensitive ecosystem, you should have everything you would need in an emergency. Backup pumps, heaters, salt, medications, etc. plus, they are often the items they don’t have.

 

[Tony Thompson]

I know for corals I think you need Aquaculture permit.

I just wanted to do fish only no corals.

Time to call New York State.

They are certain legal requirements for importing wildlife into all countries that I know of.

In the UK where I am it is a complicated matter of registration, Licencing and certification. Depts. include DEFRA, CEFAS and veterinary certification. For corals you also have CITES to deal with.

In the USA it would come under the US Department of Fish and Wildlife and US Customs and Border Protection, There are also paperwork and licence requirement required from the country of export. They will also be TAX implications.

Unless you are ordering large quantities and able to accept alternative fillers for orders, then it is not practicable. If you wish to eliminate the wholesalers then you could use a consolidator, Shipping cots are at the highest level they have evet been at the moment. Shippers rarely offer DOA cover, you would ned your own insurance. If you where selling the livestock, retail you would also need further government contact.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

I would be so annoyed if my stores did this

Does your store label prices on livestock? a local place to me hardly does and its frustrating because for one person a $10 fish is like $30 for me. I would love to go there more often, but the variability makes me stay away

rip me too , i would ask them what test kits they use, what are the batch numbers, expiration dates, etc.. why not fight fire with fire

small.... i used think that way too, but i find since i concentrate most of my aquarium purchases thru my lfs im more likely to get the $10 than $30 treatment. so in that way it more depends on your shopping habbits, my lfs will match brs or online vendors or beat them ever, if he had to survive against online, would not have such a valuable resource 20 mintute from my house.

 

[ssdawood]

I get your point, but many Local Fish Stores need to change their business practices if they want to stay in business, and show why you should spend your money there vs elsewhere. At any given time, you should be able to walk in and get everything you need to set up an entire system that day. They shouldn't have dead fish or Aptasia in their systems. If you bring fish that have outgrown your tank, or other livestock, they should give some store credit, not just take your “surrendered livestock”

Also, keeping such a sensitive ecosystem, you should have everything you would need in an emergency. Backup pumps, heaters, salt, medications, etc. plus, they are often the items they don’t have.

I just showed you the other side. Small business doesn't have cash to stock a lot of dry goods.
Other things you mention sound like your lfs is a little subpar.
Find a decent lfs.

Anyways I was answering your question " why do they say they will order next week whe. AMAZON has it in stock?"

Money, it takes a lot of cash to have a store flush with dry goods.

 

[ssdawood]

I usually use online for dry goods. Livestock etc LFS.
Keep everyone happy.

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

Or they have 30 Radions over their tanks, but have none in stock for sale, and I request to order 4 for a tank im setting up, and they respond” we wont be making an order from Ecotech until next month. “

 

[mdb_talon]

I get your point, but many Local Fish Stores need to change their business practices if they want to stay in business, and show why you should spend your money there vs elsewhere. At any given time, you should be able to walk in and get everything you need to set up an entire system that day. They shouldn't have dead fish or Aptasia in their systems. If you bring fish that have outgrown your tank, or other livestock, they should give some store credit, not just take your “surrendered livestock”

I disagree completely. The LFS that seem to be thriving are those that are built to profit on service, consumable(food/water), and livestock. This is a change from years ago where the independent LFS survived on dry good and the livestock was just there to get people to come in(and also buy dry goods). I mean it is fine to want your average LFS to have a fully stocked inventory of all the things you may want from Amazon within a day, but completely unrealistic for the vast majority of them(there are exceptions of course). With chain stores(petco/petsmart) having massive buying power your LFS cant compete on most mass market items(and if they can it is on unprofitable margins). Same with amazon/brs/etc it is very difficult to compete in dry goods with an online retailer.

Keeping a large inventory of a mass amount of products was reasonable when you were buying at same price as your competitors and selling for 3x your cost. When your competitors buy cheaper and your margins shrink to nonexistent it becomes a failing business model. Thankfully many have adapted and found that livestock and service is where they can differentiate themselves.

 

[Ashy]

Or they have 30 Radions over their tanks, but have none in stock for sale, and I request to order 4 for a tank im setting up, and they respond” we wont be making an order from Ecotech until next month. “

If that happens they are basically forcing you to go online, seems unlikely they would want to miss out on a big sale like lighting though.

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

I just showed you the other side. Small business doesn't have cash to stock a lot of dry goods.
Other things you mention sound like your lfs is a little subpar.
Find a decent lfs.

Anyways I was answering your question " why do they say they will order next week whe. AMAZON has it in stock?"

Money, it takes a lot of cash to have a store flush with dry goods.

I hate to say not my problem, but its not my problem. I have a small business, and everything needs to be in stock if you don't want someone to shop elsewhere. And if you dont have a business plan that allows you to stay in business, you shouldn't be in business.
Its all the LFS in the 2 counties i live between. I dont have the same issue when Im 2 hours away in Miami or Lauderdale.

As far as cash, you need to spend money to make money. And my business works on significantly lower margins than an LFS.

 

[Tony Thompson]

I was wondering, does anyone have any questions about some behind the scenes at an LFS?

Hi @Spare time , I am the owner of a store here in the UK, I am also a DEFRA and CEFAS licence holder for aquaculture. (please don't ask for the name that's not my intention) But I thought I could also offer some broader answers to some of the questions. Especially with regards the UK but also on a general level.

I don't want to step on any toes so would only offer answers to questions that may have a different viewpoint. Also rather than the common system of Pet Shop Licencing, I run my protocols based on the Aquatic Animal Health programme and Zoos and aquariums protocols in conjunction with training from the aquatic veterinary organisation.

Would you be happy with me giving some answers too ? Thanks, Tony Thompson.

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

I disagree completely. The LFS that seem to be thriving are those that are built to profit on service, consumable(food/water), and livestock. This is a change from years ago where the independent LFS survived on dry good and the livestock was just there to get people to come in(and also buy dry goods). I mean it is fine to want your average LFS to have a fully stocked inventory of all the things you may want from Amazon within a day, but completely unrealistic for the vast majority of them(there are exceptions of course). With chain stores(petco/petsmart) having massive buying power your LFS cant compete on most mass market items(and if they can it is on unprofitable margins). Same with amazon/brs/etc it is very difficult to compete in dry goods with an online retailer.

Keeping a large inventory of a mass amount of products was reasonable when you were buying at same price as your competitors and selling for 3x your cost. When your competitors buy cheaper and your margins shrink to nonexistent it becomes a failing business model. Thankfully many have adapted and found that livestock and service is where they can differentiate themselves.

How can you disagree if you dont go to the local stores i go to in Southwest Florida?

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

If that happens they are basically forcing you to go online, seems unlikely they would want to miss out on a big sale like lighting though.

The margins on those items are not as good as marking up a chip of acropora tenuius 1000%, but its worth making the sale.

 

[mdb_talon]

As i said there are exceptions. The vast majority of LFS dont exist in the Southwest Florida business environment you speak of. If you got a couple hundred people walking through the door each day then those slim margins on dry goods is acceptable.