Just a thought on giving advice...

[All_talk]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine. But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both), I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately. I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?


Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

 

[Cichlid Dad]

"Put up or shut up" was not really my intent, but I guess its not to far off the target.

And I truly appreciate those with professional experience spreading their knowledge, this hobby could use a lot more of that. And if your guidance is responsible for tanks that are not personally yours, I think its still fair to show those.

But like they say, a picture is worth 1000 words. Instead of writing out your experience, just show me where you are at. For many of us our current tanks are the culmination of our knowledge and experience, let me see if your style of reefing is my style of reefing. Besides, who doesn't like showing off there tank.

And seeing other tanks! I love looking at others and what there doing. Sometimes it gives you confidence not only in the advise you are getting but also in what you are doing in your tank. And yes seeing a little bubble algae or other things in someone else's tank will make you feel a little better with what you are dealing with the same thing.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

That has been an issue since the days when I was a Sysop on Compuserve's FISHNET back in the mid-1980s'. It has become a huge issue on Facebook, it's almost like some Facebook pages have people posting bad information on purpose - I mean, how else could they get things so wrong (grin).

Reef2Reef took a proactive step here in regards to the Fish Disease forum. Myself and the Fishmedic team handle, or at least review, all of the "problem reports". We aren't always right, and in some cases, we simply don't have enough information to make informed decisions, but we correct any egregious advice that we see.

Randy Holmes-Farley performs a similar function on the chemistry forum here, and Dana Riddle helps out with the lighting forum.

For the reefing forums, we look mostly towards self-correcting, when bad advice surfaces, other members help correct it. There is also the Reef Squad, but I'm not sure how active that is.

In regards to your idea to "put up or shut up" and show your own tank, that might work, but in other cases, it might not. I have NEVER owned a SPS tank, but I manage people that do operate them, and I've designed dozens of them for public aquariums. Perhaps a better "proof" would be for people to submit references with their ideas?

Jay

 

[Dburr1014]

When starting a new thread members can choose to make the thread a question type thread and then everyone will be allowed to upvote the answers. This is one way to filter. I’m going to change this thread to that type so you can see it in action.

Is this new? Don't think I've noticed this before?!

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

Pee in your tank to mark your territory. After a few times, your fish and corals will obey. pics for reference.

** FYI... this is a joke.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Pee in your tank to mark your territory. After a few times, your fish and corals will obey. pics for reference.

** FYI... this is a joke.

looks exactly like mine, we follow the same processes

 

[Dburr1014]

Pee in your tank to mark your territory. After a few times, your fish and corals will obey. pics for reference.

** FYI... this is a joke.

Sort by votes, this is climbing. LOL

 

[olonmv]

I think it boils down to the one looking for advice. I try to give it in based on situations that I’ve gone through that have worked for me or by what others have had success with. But at the end of the day, a forum is a place to look for answers and then vet them. When I look for advice, it’s so I can have an idea where to start reading. After some time on here, you also get to know who’s advice holds water better.

 

[Paul B]

That has been an issue since the days when I was a Sysop on Compuserve's FISHNET back in the mid-1980s'.

Was that you?

How recent a picture of your tank should it be?

 

[DeniseAndy]

When looking for advice, I always do a search here, all over the internet and also reference my "go to" books. However, when I respond to a question, I always use my experiences rather than "they say" type stuff. Now, it can be different for every reef or every person. However, I do not comment if I do not know anything on the subject unless I have experience close. I also state that as I comment. This simple statement helps a lot. I also try to use examples from my experience to help the person. This will filter out many of the just "they say" responses. Good wording to look for when searching.

Now pictures: I am the person who does not take good pictures, and never remember to take them. Too old I guess. I only remember to take them every so often and then never as I am going through something. I wish I was more like my kids where they seem to photo themselves and others constantly. Never without a phone/camera.

I do have more pictures on my phone of my tank than any of my kids, but hello, what reef keeper doesn't.

 

[Dan_P]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine. But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both), I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately. I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?


Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

Great post.

Sorting out the BS from internet sources is tough. I am not sure that a photo of an aquarium is sufficient to validate information or properly weight an opinion. I would say if you are relying solely on internet information to inform your aquarium keeping decisions, you are taking a big risk, comparable to not being vaccinated against childhood diseases.

 

[Dburr1014]

Another thing that someone in here should stop doing is copying and pasting other people's work without citing the paper or anything so the person can look it up and get the whole story. Not naming names but if you just copy and paste most of someone's answers in here into Google you will come out with a much better understanding on the topic for most of their answers. I sometimes wonder how much that person actually knows vs just googling everything in the moment. Would be nice if that wasn't allowed on here but it's been called out so much it's not going to change.

Can I get an amen.
Is so much easier to post the link for the whole story.

 

[naterealbig]

As the organization who facilitates the open communication between hobbyists, I believe that Reef2Reef should assume the burden of differentiating (and making easily visible) a members advice-giving 'worthiness'.

A badge would be appropriate - "Reef Advisor" or "(insert suject here) Subject Matter Expert")

I know the first reply to this post will be someone explaining how difficult this would be to do, but I would defer to my comment on burden in the first sentence.

Until then, I put a link to my last setup (I could put the ones before that too) so others can see what's up w/ me.

 

[X-37B]

I will way in on an interesting thread.
Advice is realative based on the person giving it.
Find a person who has a thread that goes from day one until now.
This should be a thread with the good and bad aspects of reefing.

New people please "have a plan" before you start. Without one your reefing will be harder than it needs to be.

Many people on this forum setup a system and try to piece it together as they go. Its hard to give advice for these systems as the operator does not have control from day one.
From all the threads on here this has become very common.

Their is one basic in reefing that I follow and have for 30+ years and thats keep it simple.

I have tried most everything out their over the years.

SG 1.026-1.027
Temp 77-80°F
Alk 6.5-7.5 7 is my target
Ca 420-450
Mag 1300-1400
No3<5
Po4 <0.1
K 400-420

These are what I can test for and control.
The above numbers will work for all types of coral with no issues if stable and kept in range.

You plan must include what to do to keep all parameters in place.
All products to do so must be in house and ready when needed.

Plan your equipment from day one.

The type of equipment is up to you. Their should be no mystery here. Pick how you want to dose and your set.

The biggest issue with advice I see is people will ask a question and get many different answers. This tends to confuse new people.

It would be better to pm someone whose system you like and follow their advice.

I have done this for a few reefers.
The problem is most wont follow your advice and they will add this and do that and then wonder why they have problems. To much advice from to many people.

I could go on but wont.
My old 120 and 20g nano.
Currently runing 4 tanks, 3 systems with a total of around 200g's.

Reef on!.
Anyone who would like to talk offline PM me.

 

[o2manyfish]

Fortunately, posting on Reef2Reef cuts down on the quantity of misinformation. Sites that don't show you how many times a person has posted or how long they have been on the site, or in the hobby, definitely have a substantially greater level of BS and attitude.

And I believe the "Put Up or Shut Up" approach is totally apropo when questioning someones beliefs, methods, comprehension or definition of success.

I surely don't want to be "schooled" by someone with a 20g tank, lit by flourescent tubes, with plastic plants, that's 3 weeks old and has only a pair of domino damsels in it.

I'm a bitchy old reefer. I've had a fish tank in my life for 5 decades. I've have had a saltwater tank in my life since the days of UG filters with air bubblers in the corners. I've worked in fish stores, I've had a company that builds custom salt water aquariums, I've owned trans-ship companies, I've owned collection facilities, I've taught collectors in how to handle living creatures, I've consulted with foreign governments on coral growout facilites, I've done product testing for a number of aquarium equipment manufacturers, and I've run a wholesale coral facility in the United States.

And now I have tooted my own horn - only to say I'm pretty dang confident in my knowledge of the reefing hobby.

I enjoy sharing my knowledge and experience in the hobby. But it's exasperating when someone tells me I'm wrong and they have been running a successful aquarium for all of 12 weeks. The regurgitation of false information is rampant amoung those who want to be a leader, a showoff, an expert - without the actual experience to back it up.

My build thread shares decades of success, accidents and failures. I said I was experienced, not perfect. But with each failure or step backward, I eek out a little more experience about what not to do.


Prepping for Current Build

Current Build

Last Build

 

[bpinkstaff]

I'm going to put this idea out there...

Many of us come here for advice on reefing, and there seems to be no end to the diversity in responses, this in itself is fine. But how is one to filter this mass of input? I'm not talking about weeding the good from the bad (there seems to be plenty of both), I'm looking for a way to sort out what could apply to mine (or your) particular situation. Most of us would agree there is more than one way to successfully run a reef tank, there has to be, there is more than one type of reef tank, right?

I suggest the idea that any advice to others comes with a recent picture of your reef tank.

If the tank looks like something I am striving for I can weight the advice appropriately. If the tank does not look like what I'm going for then I can weigh that advice appropriately. I believe all advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but how big is the grain?


Note: This is not my original idea... Thank You Richard Ross for being a voice of experience and reason in this hobby. Reef Beef!

Well said!

 

[Reefer Matt Verified Media Partner]

As the organization who facilitates the open communication between hobbyists, I believe that Reef2Reef should assume the burden of differentiating (and making easily visible) a members advice-giving 'worthiness'.

A badge would be appropriate - "Reef Advisor" or "(insert suject here) Subject Matter Expert")

I know the first reply to this post will be someone explaining how difficult this would be to do, but I would defer to my comment on burden in the first sentence.

Until then, I put a link to my last setup (I could put the ones before that too) so others can see what's up w/ me.

That already exists with the Reef Squad badge.

 

[mike550]

@All_talk I‘ve been at this for a couple of years now, and here is what I learned. There are lots of opinions, and they can be diverse. But if I focus on the facts of what’s being shared then I can make my own decision which is essentially forming my own opinion.

Great example is “best salt”. There isn’t a universal best salt but I like the suggestions as to how to decide which salt is right for me.

 

[Dan_P]

Another thing that someone in here should stop doing is copying and pasting other people's work without citing the paper or anything so the person can look it up and get the whole story. Not naming names but if you just copy and paste most of someone's answers in here into Google you will come out with a much better understanding on the topic for most of their answers. I sometimes wonder how much that person actually knows vs just googling everything in the moment. Would be nice if that wasn't allowed on here but it's been called out so much it's not going to change.

Sure, that would be ideal, but we can ask for the reference if we are interested, right? I know, then we have to wait for a reply and by then we might not care anymore or be too busy to follow up.

 

[srobertb]

Try to keep it simple:

Forums work by aggregating anecdotal data as well as shared scientific data to help form an opinion, action plan, or methodology. Getting 15 answers, asking questions, and extrapolating the right answer (not the most convenient) is how this all works best.

Scrolling thru and finding the tank “you like” and basing your decision on that would be as foolish as scrolling through and finding the answer you like best (although this is par for the course these days). Especially with the many “this is my friends tank” when pressed. Don’t forget the classic “this was my beautiful display until it crashed and everything died after 3 months.”

I don’t think I’m weighing opinions solely on someone’s ability to use filters or photoshop.

There are too many exceptions to the rule to go solely with one person’s opinion or practices. Too many beautiful tanks with husbandry skills that rail against common modern practices and ideologies. …and this is GREAT. But it should be tempered by 10-20 other thoughts and experiences. Not the sole one you choose because they can use photoshop or are lucky.

“Excuse me but before I allow you to help me program my Apex, I need a tank picture.” Hmmmm….

 

[srobertb]

@All_talk I‘ve been at this for a couple of years now, and here is what I learned. There are lots of opinions, and they can be diverse. But if I focus on the facts of what’s being shared then I can make my own decision which is essentially forming my own opinion.

Great example is “best salt”. There isn’t a universal best salt but I like the suggestions as to how to decide which salt is right for me.

This is it. Aggregation of information and applying it to your use case.” I don’t want to dose and I’ll be using pre-made saltwater within 24 hours of mixing.” Reef Crystals might be a good option. “ I have 10 dosing pumps and I want my SW to be able to sit in a holding tank for 3 months”. Maybe something with less additives that is pharmaceutical grade is a better option.

Lots of opinions and questions and debate and finding the one that works for you is what forums are all about.