Just ranting here

[littlebigreef]

It is both insulting and disingenuous when you see what would otherwise be a $25-30 frag at your LFS listed at the ‘regular price’ of $100 but ‘discounted’ at 60% off for a still grossly inflated sum of $40. But here we are.

The reasons? They’re many but it comes down to overhead, staffing, and the cost of doing business, etc. The fact is that 10-12 years of speculating on coral (as if they were stocks and bonds), branding, and everyone offering frags has led us to this strange place the last 18 months where few things hold their value and the market for sellers isn’t what it was even a few years ago. Not saying it’s good or bad but, the market has changed. These grossly inflated prices are emblematic of an industry in flux where it makes you question whether some of these larger outfits can remain a viable business over the next 2-3 years.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

It is both insulting and disingenuous when you see what would otherwise be a $25-30 frag at your LFS listed at the ‘regular price’ of $100 but ‘discounted’ at 60% off for a still grossly inflated sum of $40. But here we are.

The reasons? They’re many but it comes down to overhead, staffing, and the cost of doing business, etc. The fact is that 10-12 years of speculating on coral (as if they were stocks and bonds), branding, and everyone offering frags has led us to this strange place the last 18 months where few things hold their value and the market for sellers isn’t what it was even a few years ago. Not saying it’s good or bad but, the market has changed. These grossly inflated prices are emblematic of an industry in flux where it makes you question whether some of these larger outfits can remain a viable business over the next 2-3 years.

Maybe the market for sellers would be better and they'd attract more hobbyists if their prices were reasonable

 

[littlebigreef]

Maybe the market for sellers would be better and they'd attract more hobbyists if their prices were reasonable

Right, but there’s a finite number of buyers, far more sellers, and due to inflation a number of drivers raising the cost of producing aquacultured corals.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Right, but there’s a finite number of buyers, far more sellers, and due to inflation a number of drivers raising the cost of producing aquacultured corals.

I see...I wonder if the shops over there with their own coral farms have more competitive prices. So from what your saying it sounds as if the market is oversaturated at the moment so many shops without their own coral farms will go out of business.

 

[FernFish]

Is one head of by color frog spawn for 15 bucks a good deal?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Is one head of by color frog spawn for 15 bucks a good deal?

If it looks healthy, sure!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

If it looks healthy, sure!

Haha honestly, if you can't swallow $15 for a Euphyllia coral, I'm not sure you know what you're getting into...

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Haha honestly, if you can't swallow $15 for a Euphyllia coral, I'm not sure you know what you're getting into...

(Fimbriaphyllia)

 

[fishybizzness]

Chill dude. This is called a rant. It isn't supposed to get heated.

Lol, I was just saying that we should speak with our wallets. That's the only way for prices to come down. Sorry if that was taken wrong.

 

[hoytoyed]

My best results have come from getting frags from other reefers. Best quality, largest frags and best prices. Designer fad acros especially. I’d hate to pay $150 for a 3/4” frag of some hot acro, when a local will sell me a 3” frag for $40.

 

[flyfisher2]

Here's my .02 again. I am not a part of the One percent. I'm a hobbyist who fell in love with the hobby as a child well over 50 years ago. As it being a hobby its stands to reason that it's not a necessity such as housing, clothing and food. None the less, hobbies contribute to other aspects in our lives which can be deemed necessary.
In the 70's and 80's audio was a huge thing and in NYC the stores selling gear were numerous. The audio hobbyist had options. Not everyone could afford to buy McIntosh, Luxman, etc. gear but it was awesome to listen and dream. Pioneer, Onkyo, Hitachi, Yamaha, Technics, Sansui, Marantz, the list goes on. We had options.
Today Mcintosh still exist but not even a middle of the road brand anymore, at least in price.(Still awesome stuff) Now you pay for speakers in the hundreds of thousands which are deemed the best by reviewers. Amps which need to be delivered by forklift and have flashing lights which contribute to sound quality in what way?
Let's get back to our hobby of reefing. Yes Corals are ridiculous and through the roof but the person that can pay $1500 per head just does it. The vendor makes his money and isn't just making it but no longer has to drive the pickup truck used to pickup shipments and do installs. He now has an exotic luxury vehicle. AND That's truly awesome and I congratulate you on your success BUT please don't insult our intelligence by saying you're just making it and the cost of shipping is what has driven the cost up. If that were the case the pickup truck would still be the commute vehicle.
Now let's talk about supplies, I'm not obligated to buy $1500 corals but I do need salt and supplies. Before we had options. Those of us looking to save a buck would buy the mix which was affordable. Those of us who wanted the very best and weren't concerned with cost would buy what was recommended on the internet videos as the very best and that was that.
What has happened recently is that the option to choose has been taken away. If the cheap, less desirable entry level product is being sold at a very close price to the premium product then the hobby is being reintroduced as solely for those at the very top of the food chain. Online retailers are happy because they expect to sell more of the cheap product? No they're happy because the average Joe is being forced to reconsider his or her options and will hopefully buy the premium product from them thus making this years model of the Exotic car as good as in the garage.
My question to those who are in that position, Do you care about the hobby as such and what it does for the community in general or is it just all about how it benefits you?
I'm sure there will be those who's response to this post would be something along the line of , "Sell your stuff and buy a Goldfish and a fish bowl"
But this hobby has given us the right to be part of it because it's nature and No one owns Nature. We are a part of it.
Just my .02

 

[Gundy]

It is both insulting and disingenuous when you see what would otherwise be a $25-30 frag at your LFS listed at the ‘regular price’ of $100 but ‘discounted’ at 60% off for a still grossly inflated sum of $40. But here we are.

The reasons? They’re many but it comes down to overhead, staffing, and the cost of doing business, etc. The fact is that 10-12 years of speculating on coral (as if they were stocks and bonds), branding, and everyone offering frags has led us to this strange place the last 18 months where few things hold their value and the market for sellers isn’t what it was even a few years ago. Not saying it’s good or bad but, the market has changed. These grossly inflated prices are emblematic of an industry in flux where it makes you question whether some of these larger outfits can remain a viable business over the next 2-3 years.

You bring up a very good point. Depending on what the economy does in the near future, and the continued increase of hobbyists selling frag’s from there own frag tanks, it will be interesting to see if these large businesses succeed. Their overhead is high and shipping is expensive. Those that buy locally from their LFS or local buyers can offer corals at a much reduced cost. As local purchasing of frags continues to grow, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see the amount of online stores close or be more competitive in terms of cost.

 

[DeepBreath]

Excellent point, and a commentary on everything we purchase these days. As a society we used to have a cost effective option that was decent, wasn't built for longevity, but most folks could afford. Then a solid, middle of the road option that was durable and a good purchase. Then the high-end option that was truly elegant in both quality and appearance. Now everything is junk, finicky, and expensive.

To our hobby, I've had "fish tanks" since I was a kid and got into the Saltwater end of the hobby about 7 or so years ago. The saltwater hobby seems to be driven by ads, on-line retailers, and what's the latest and greatest gadget. In my area, all of out saltwater specific LFS and small pet stores have gone out of business, and I live in a big city. They went out of business because of the economy , and so much competition with on-line retailers. Our independent LFS used to have a $5, 10, 20, 30, etc. tank for great sized and healthy corals, reasonably priced fish, and gear. Now it seems like in our area I unfortunately have to either go to a big-box pet store, spend a significant part of a day to travel to and from one of the few overcrowded and not that great independent LFS, or buy on-line. Every option now is ridiculously expensive and no educated salespeople to help. If you buy on-line, the "on sale" items have the extreme shipping and handling charges tacked onto your order.

It's great to see that there is so much education available now about the hobby, but unfortunately most of that education is based on what overpriced products are being sold. Or uninformed folks regurgitating already posted information looking to get more likes.

To the point of a $1,500 coral (and fish for that matter), that's a pretty big nut to crack for an animal that may or may not make it in shipping, or even adapt to our humble aquariums. Spending that much on an on-line purchase when you can't see it swim or extend, is risky behavior. Speaking for myself, I run a low tech operation, and I'm not much of a gambler. So I have a hard time justifying spending over $50 for any one animal, especially a coral. However, I have no one to impress but myself. I'm not looking for "likes." I just like to relax and look at my fish swim around. Why does everything have to be so complicated and expensive these days?

 

[Cthulukelele]

I can’t believe the online stores. I bought pixie dust Zoas online. They were “on sale” for $55. They grew like crazy so I fragged some just to be told that they are worthless by my LFS. Nothing against the LFS. They sell “rare” Zoas but never exceed $20. I just feel sorry for people who don’t have a good LFS who have to buy online. Online stores must be making a killing off them unfortunately.

Yeah pink and gold zoas are a literal plague coral. So frustrating for people to pull fancy lighting garbage pics to milk people

 

[a.t.t.r]

You should try my LFS. Ugly zoas for 40-60 bucks per tiny frag. All coral easily 3-10x what it should be even compared to the next closest LfS

 

[Digimes]

Well, and then there are stores that literally rake an incoming noobie with selling them a $2,500 setup of nothing. I feel it was just bait to see if they bite before the store chums the water.

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

I have wholesale accounts with most of the major distributors. Not only have their prices gone crazy, but many are just so frag-heavy these days.

It’s frustrating….for existing clients who have nice coral biomass, they don’t mind throwing frags in the tank and seeing a pay-off. But if I have a new 500g or something going in, those clients don’t want to spend all that money and then wait a year to see some 4” diameter corals. The other for larger pieces is generally Australian stuff, and now we’re spending $300-600 per coral. That can be a tough sell.

I don’t want to have to do tanks that are all green star polyps and Kenya trees.

That said, a little birdie told me the other day that some Indonesia is going to open up to at least a couple of collectors. Stay tuned.

 

[SnazzyUrchin792]

If you want to see something completely ridiculous, check out this new post I just found. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hello-not-new-here.1028187/

 

[crazyfishmom]

Wait are there people here who wouldn’t put 30k on a fish that looks injured?!???!!!

Those poor guys are not cute.
Sorry being mean but still.

 

[SnazzyUrchin792]

I honestly think I like this guy better