Kalk Overdose

[robf]

I had a ph spike last night caused by an overdose of limewater from my ATO. When I got home last night PH was at 8.9 and my alarm was going off on my reef keeper. The Tunze Osmo was not turned on so the alarm DID indeed shut it off but it was too late. A super saturated amount of top off water was injected.

Here is the background. I started out putting 2 tbs of kalk in 5-6 gallons of top off water. The top off is controlled by Tunze osmolator ATO unit is plugged into my reef keeper elite power strip. My PH has held pretty steady between 8.1 and 8.3 for about the last 2 months. My reef keeper plug is programmed to kill power if ph Rises above 8.35. Mistake 1. Don’t fix it if it aint broke. After reading about a way to super saturate the kalk in the book “The Reef Aquarium, Vol. 3: Science, Art, and Technology†by Julian Sprung, J. Charles Delbeek, I decided to try saturating my ATO kalk with vinegar. I added 60 ml of vinegar (Less than 1/3 the recommended dose) to 6 gal of ATO water with 2 tbs of Kalk. Mistake 2. More kalk was actually in the system than I accounted for. I am pretty sure I had a bunch of residual kalk in the bottom of the ATO container when I added an additional 2 tbs of kalk and the vinegar. I had no noticeable issues for the first 3 or 4 days as the first half of the top off water was put into the sump. I must have let the Tunze pump sit on the bottom of the the ATO and it sucked up kalk slurry directly off the bottom of the ATO. A super saturated solution must have gone into the system.

To bring it my PH down I started dosing shots of white vinegar 10-15 ml at a time in the sump. This morning the PH was still 8.5. Everything in the tank looks healthy except the Armor of God Zoanthid was a bit more retracted than usual. I should probably move to dosing 2 part instead to avoid potential of a PH spike like this again or at a minimum move the kalk solution to a separate reservoir and dose it as needed. Any thoughts?

 

[ColaAddict]

I would just do a partial water change. You might see a bacterial bloom if you keep loading your tank with vinegar. 8.5 is nothing to panic about, but if some of your corals don't like it, then the safest way to bring it down is do a water change. otherwise you can just let it come down on it's own and not dose kalk until it is down to your desired level.

 

[robf]

When I got home tonight the pH was still high at 8.5. Your advice was no doubt the best ColaAddict but I didn't read this until I had already acted. Patience is a valuable and learned skill. Along with pH, dkh rose to 9.2 from 8.4. Added a drip of 60 mg of white vinegar in RO water. pH is now 8.3. Everything is back to normal pretty much normal. I'm guessing although I wasn't close to saturation with the top off water and Kalk. The fact that I don't have many corals (the few I have are still small frags in my tank) meant not much mineral uptake is occurring in the tank. Therefore the concentration in my limewater was too high for my system. I poured it all out and made a new batch with far less kalk 2 tsp for 5 gallons and no vinegar. Thanks.

 

[CJO]

I would still look at doing some large water changes. Otherwise, with that much new carbon source in you water, you could see a large bacterial bloom. Even worse, this bloom could use up most of the oxygen in your water and crash your tank.

CJ

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

I would still look at doing some large water changes. Otherwise, with that much new carbon source in you water, you could see a large bacterial bloom. Even worse, this bloom could use up most of the oxygen in your water and crash your tank.

CJ

+1

I would not add more vinegar. Simply allow the pH to drop normally through water change and over time. IME, 8.5 pH / 9.2 dKh is nothing to worry about but the sudden addition of that much vinegar may cause problems.

I've used vinegar laden Kalk/ATO for years with good success however the 2 tsp Kalk in 5 gallons was likely not the cause of your problem as it will provide very little Alk and Ca. Dosing the Kalk "slurry" caused the spike. Also that low concentration without excess Kalk in the bottom of your ATO container will degrade when exposed to air/CO2 resulting in even less benefit.

 

[robf]

Latest update: This morning I woke up to the sound of my sump socks overflowing. The tank was cloudy and the socks were plugged by a bio film of some kind. Probably caused by all the carbon fueling the bio bloom. I changed them out. pH had risen back up to 8.55. Now it’s 10 am and has dropped to 8.48. Livestock seems fine. Zoathins seem to be retracted a bit. I removed all kalk from my top off reservoir which is about to kick back on with the afternoon evaporation. I don't plan on re-introducing Kalk until pH is steady around 8.2. If I have time I may do a 10% water change tonight.

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

Those problems are a result of the vinegar and will likley continue for a bit. Be prepared to change a lot of filter socks over the near future. I would try to do multiple water changes over the next few days. I would not cease your Kalk ATO as that might result in an even wider Alk swing. pH is not the best indicator or Alk and Ca. Make your changes based on your Alk and.... and no more vinegar

 

[robf]

Those problems are a result of the vinegar and will likley continue for a bit. Be prepared to change a lot of filter socks over the near future. I would try to do multiple water changes over the next few days. I would not cease your Kalk ATO as that might result in an even wider Alk swing. pH is not the best indicator or Alk and Ca. Make your changes based on your Alk and.... and no more vinegar

Thanks. Could you expand on this? What does Alk tell you? What do you like to see?

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

Thanks. Could you expand on this? What does Alk tell you? What do you like to see?

The key is to maintain Alk levels as stable as possible. IMO, major swings in Alk are potentially far more detrimental that pH swings.

Randy Holmes-Farley has written extensively on Kalkwasser and the addition of vinegar - I'd recommend reading...

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

 

[turbo21]

I did almost the same thing a few weeks ago. I was using a bucket to drip kalk that was raised above the sump. I bumped into it and knocked 5 gallons in at once. My ph went to 8.9 and within minutes i lost a kole tang. I figured with everything already being stressed with the huge swing, i immediately swing it back to 8.2 using vinegar and a %50 water change. I only lost the kole tang and my clown tang. All other fish and corals including sps didnt show any signs of distress.

bob

 

[robf]

As of this morning my tank had gotten much clearer. I tested my water. pH 8.48 (main lights were still off so this will probably rise). Ca 400, Alk 11.2 (!!!!), Mg 1280. Last night my Mandrin looked pathetic. It was swimming on the surface and getting pressed against the teeth on the overflow. He's one of my prettiest fish. Sad. I don't know if he'll make it. My Brain coral looks shriveled as well but I'm sure it will be fine. The Alk is on no doubt back on the way down so hopefully the worst is over. I'll do another 10% water change tonight. I bought the TLF kalk reactor, pump and float switches for my Reefkeeper. Plan is to move the kalk out of my top off and into it's own reactor. This should make my kalk additions more consistent and safer.

 

[-Logzor]

Definitely don't do anything crazy to fix the issue. Small water changes are best, things will correct in about a week or so. If there is still particles (cloudy water) in the water then your alkalinity reading will NOT come out correct. The reagent will dissolve those particles and count it. Since there are currently solids, they're not effecting your livestock.

It sounds like pH is your main concern, you may want to take further action to bring that down but I'm not sure what you should do.

Have you tested for ammonia? I'm trying to figure out what's effecting your mandarin.

A few months ago I was working on my litermeter and 700 mL of recipe 1 alkalinity two part dumped into my tank. The tank was solid white, I couldn't see corals an inch away from the glass. I took the advice of people and did not panic, I did a small water change and just decided to leave it. No livestock was harmed and my tank was back to normal two-weeks later. The only damage was to my sandbed...which turned into a giant slab of concrete. LOL

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

Definitely don't do anything crazy to fix the issue. Small water changes are best, things will correct in about a week or so. If there is still particles (cloudy water) in the water then your alkalinity reading will NOT come out correct. The reagent will dissolve those particles and count it. Since there are currently solids, they're not effecting your livestock.

Make sure you've got plenty of aeration - the bacteria bloom can quickly deplete O2 from the water column, this might be why your Mandarin is hanging near the waters surface.

In this case, the cloudy water is a result of a bacteria bloom - not calcium precipitation. I would take no further drastic action - Simply allow the water changes and time to take effect. Odds are much of the damage was the result of over reacting to the initial event. Alk of 11.2 if not harmful, nor is a pH of 8.48 - it's drastic changes that cause the problem.

 

[robf]

Thanks for all you help everyone. I was very concerned at the time. Everything appears well. ALL my livestock seem to be doing well including my brain and my mandarin. Maybe he regularly floats around the rim of my tank in the wee hours. He just had me worried considering I had spiked my tank. Sometimes you start seeing things that are not really there when you are in crisis mode. I'm pretty new to the hobby but learning all I can. I've read more on pH/Alk than I care to admit over the last 2 days.

 

[robf]

I have not experienced any further problems from the vinegar. Would the fact that I was running bio pellets have made my tank more tolerable the carbon? Also, although its no super high at 8.6, why won't my pH fall? Is it because there is not enough co2 in the water? I'm asking only out of curiosity. I'm sure it will eventually go back to the pH of 8.2 to 8.4 range i normally run at.

 

[robf]

pH STILL ELEVATED?!? Got home tonight and with lights off at 10 pm it was 8.63 What gives? Why won't pH fall back to normal? I did a 10% water change this AM. Is it from lack of co2?

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

It will equalize, just stay the course. If you accidentally dosed a large amount of Kalkwasser powder/slurry, it might take a while for your CO2 levels to return to normal. What are your Alk and CA? Are you dosing anything? A .2 pH increase is little to be concerned about - remember pH changes throughout the day/night based on normal diurnal swings (mine ranges 7.95~8.15.) Make sure your comparing test values to those taken at the same time the prior day.

 

[robf]

At noon, near the apex of the diurnal swing Alk is 7.4 dKH (was 10.4 two days ago). Calcium is 420. pH meter is currently reading 8.63. Other than pH being a tad high everything else is right in range.

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

Have you calibrated your pH probe? How large is the daily pH swing? I still wouldn't stress over 8.63 pH when you normally run ~8.4 as it will drop on it's own.

 

[robf]

Thanks Tom. I'm thinking the same thing. I'm going to recalibrate the pH meter as soon as I have the time. I have the calibration solutions on hand.