Kalkwasser AND Two Part?

[DeputyDog95]

For those dosing 2 part around the clock and Kalk at night, how do you adjust the 2 part so keep Alk and Ca stable and not jumping up?

Im dosing 4.5 liters of Kalk at night to keep the pH where I want ir, but it's raising my Alk and Ca slightly higher than I prefer.

Is it just as simple as reducing the amount of 2 part during the period at night while I'm dosing Kalk?

 

[Shooter6]

For those dosing 2 part around the clock and Kalk at night, how do you adjust the 2 part so keep Alk and Ca stable and not jumping up?

Im dosing 4.5 liters of Kalk at night to keep the pH where I want ir, but it's raising my Alk and Ca slightly higher than I prefer.

Is it just as simple as reducing the amount of 2 part during the period at night while I'm dosing Kalk?

Shut your 2 part diver off during the nite, or lower you Kalkaska dosing. Do not dose Kalk to maintain a chosen ph. Instead dose it to maintain all and have the physical boost as a secondary benefit.

If you dose it for pH and all is secondary, you will either have to accept possibly higher all then you had wanted and possibly fluctuations in kh parameters.

 

[DeputyDog95]

Ll

Shut your 2 part diver off during the nite, or lower you Kalkaska dosing. Do not dose Kalk to maintain a chosen ph. Instead dose it to maintain all and have the physical boost as a secondary benefit.

If you dose it for pH and all is secondary, you will either have to accept possibly higher all then you had wanted and possibly fluctuations in kh parameters.

Wouldn't simply lowering my 2-part dosing during the nighttime hours when I'm also dosing Kalk assist with minimizing the Alk bumps?

I'm trying to keep my pH between 8.3 and 8.45. So if I drip enough Kalk at night to keep my pH bottom at 8.3, what's wrong with that approach provided I adjust my two part down so I don't get more than say half a dkh per day?

 

[Shooter6]

Ll

Wouldn't simply lowering my 2-part dosing during the nighttime hours when I'm also dosing Kalk assist with minimizing the Alk bumps?

I'm trying to keep my pH between 8.3 and 8.45. So if I drip enough Kalk at night to keep my pH bottom at 8.3, what's wrong with that approach provided I adjust my two part down so I don't get more than say half a dkh per day?

The point I was making is chasing pH via kalk dosing is not a wise idea. Ph fluctuates due to multiple environmental issues. Weather, barometric pressure, amount of people, animals in the room ect ect. To many people are now misusing kalk due to the pH buffering effect. Now people are chasing pH like they used to phosphate and nitrates.


How much consumption of dkh do you have? I doubt it's enough that your not able to just shut down the 2 part dosing while dosing kalk at night. Additionally are you dosing 2 part or 3 part?

if your dosing So much kalk at night that your having an increase in dkh lower the kalk dosage or shut down the 2 part and increase kalk to maintain the dkh throughout the nite. Simple solutions.

 

[exnisstech]

A simple lid on limewater (kalkwasser) in an unstirred Brute can prevents degradation to a sufficient degree. Don't stir it or leave it open to the air.

^^This is all I do.
Quick question here rather than a new thread. Is there any reason I shouldn't be dripping kalk 24/7? I don't chase pH. I've probably only tested it a few time over the years. I have a total volume of around 220g and drip kalk 50 minutes on 5 minutes off around the clock using a bsr dosing pump. My kalk dose amount is less than my evaporation rate but I have no idea how much I'm actually dripping. I dose 20ml of 2 part manually every morning. This keeps my alk right around 8.5 which I'm fine with as everything looks good. Am I missing something by dosing 24/7 vs only at night or is that only useful if I'm looking for a pH bump which I don't care about, at least not right now?

EDIT : I think @Shooter6 answered my question as I was typing.

 

[DeputyDog95]

The point I was making is chasing pH via kalk dosing is not a wise idea. Ph fluctuates due to multiple environmental issues. Weather, barometric pressure, amount of people, animals in the room ect ect. To many people are now misusing kalk due to the pH buffering effect. Now people are chasing pH like they used to phosphate and nitrates.


How much consumption of dkh do you have? I doubt it's enough that your not able to just shut down the 2 part dosing while dosing kalk at night. Additionally are you dosing 2 part or 3 part?

if your dosing So much kalk at night that your having an increase in dkh lower the kalk dosage or shut down the 2 part and increase kalk to maintain the dkh throughout the nite. Simple solutions.

I'm doing the BRS hyrbid balling method. So Alk, Ca, and Balling Salt.

The tank is loaded with SPS and there is consumption at night. I used to let the Trident control the dosing and opted for the "dose less at night" option, but I never thought to look at what ratios they're using at night. That seemed to work reasonably well and keep the numbers consistent between day and night.

I should probably mention, as far as chasing pH... This is not my only pH control tactic. I am also using a C02 scrubber that is managed by the Apex' pH probe and controls an electronic ball valve to switch to ambient air the pH gets too high. The skimmer associated with the scrubber is also tied to the doser that doses Kalk at night. Same thing, pH gets way way too high, it shuts down both the skimmer and the Kalk doser. That's never happened to date though (knock on wood).

I also have an ERV unit. It's undersized, but AC company should be fixing that in the next week or two. So my C02 values are probably a lot lower than most. On the weekends, when my office is closed, it's actually really close to outside air (I have a C02 monitor near the tank). During the week, the undersized ERV helps, but I'm not keeping consistent C02 levels, hence the need to put a bigger CFM ERV in.

So for me, it's not unrealistic to peg my pH between 8.3 and 8.45. I'm actually pretty close to that right now. The last piece is finding a way to keep the pH above 8.3 at the bottom of the diurnal cycle, using both two part and Kalk (I don't think Kalk will cover all the demand), at least in the volume I'm dosing and the concentration I'm using), but not overshoot my Alk target.

 

[DeputyDog95]

^^This is all I do.
Quick question here rather than a new thread. Is there any reason I shouldn't be dripping kalk 24/7? I don't chase pH. I've probably only tested it a few time over the years. I have a total volume of around 220g and drip kalk 50 minutes on 5 minutes off around the clock using a bsr dosing pump. My kalk dose amount is less than my evaporation rate but I have no idea how much I'm actually dripping. I dose 20ml of 2 part manually every morning. This keeps my alk right around 8.5 which I'm fine with as everything looks good. Am I missing something by dosing 24/7 vs only at night or is that only useful if I'm looking for a pH bump which I don't care about, at least not right now?

EDIT : I think @Shooter6 answered my question as I was typing.

A better question... Why aren't you concerned about pH?

Once I started playing with pH, this has single handedly been the biggest positive impact I've ever made to the tank with almost instant results. My two part usage has tripled in two months and the growth has been amazing.

 

[Shooter6]

^^This is all I do.
Quick question here rather than a new thread. Is there any reason I shouldn't be dripping kalk 24/7? I don't chase pH. I've probably only tested it a few time over the years. I have a total volume of around 220g and drip kalk 50 minutes on 5 minutes off around the clock using a bsr dosing pump. My kalk dose amount is less than my evaporation rate but I have no idea how much I'm actually dripping. I dose 20ml of 2 part manually every morning. This keeps my alk right around 8.5 which I'm fine with as everything looks good. Am I missing something by dosing 24/7 vs only at night or is that only useful if I'm looking for a pH bump which I don't care about, at least not right now?

EDIT : I think @Shooter6 answered my question as I was typing.

Absolutely no reason not to dose kalk 24/7.

I do. I have a 400g & 320g plumbed into a 300g sump.

I use a kamor t2 and a 35g brute can for storage. I do a slurry dose myself and have a jeabo power head on low at the bottom of the can.

I also dose to all for reef on hourly doses along with additional magnesium.

I've been in reef keeping since 1988 so I've seen the popularity of kalk come and go only to return.


I will have 3 part on standby to dose through the reefkeeper kh pro soon. I currently will add 3 part as needed at weekly water test.

 

[exnisstech]

A better question... Why aren't you concerned about pH?

Mainly because I feel it is something I have little to no control over without getting super technical and chasing ways to control it. I'm a pretty simple guy. I manual dose 3 tanks with no automation except ato and inkbird for temp. I try not to get caught up chasing this and that. The only time I have checked pH was if things look off and I'm trying to figure out why but it had never been because of pH.
EDIT : the few times I have checked pH it was alway over 8

 

[DeputyDog95]

Mainly because I feel it is something I have little to no control over without getting super technical and chasing ways to control it. I'm a pretty simple guy. I manual dose 3 tanks with no automation except ato and inkbird for temp. I try not to get caught up chasing this and that. The only time I have checked pH was if things look off and I'm trying to figure out why but it had never been because of pH.
EDIT : the few times I have checked pH it was alway over 8

It's not really that complicated if you already have a protein skimmer and are dosing Kalk. Those are the two biggies to manipulate pH. You can simply add a c02 scrubber and dose the Kalk in such a way that it keeps your pH elevated. I have no issues with pH during the day, so I dose Kalk at night to keep my lowest pH point at about 8.3. I guess it depends on your goals and what you're keeping in there. I'm an SPS fan and I want to maximize growth. Nothing I've done to date has had a bigger impact on growth than then I started pushing the pH north of 8.3.

Obviously not essential if you're in the range, but what a difference it makes if you optimize it.

How in the world do you manually dose 3 tanks and keep it consistent?

 

[Shooter6]

It's not really that complicated if you already have a protein skimmer and are dosing Kalk. Those are the two biggies to manipulate pH. You can simply add a c02 scrubber and dose the Kalk in such a way that it keeps your pH elevated. I have no issues with pH during the day, so I dose Kalk at night to keep my lowest pH point at about 8.3. I guess it depends on your goals and what you're keeping in there. I'm an SPS fan and I want to maximize growth. Nothing I've done to date has had a bigger impact on growth than then I started pushing the pH north of 8.3.

Obviously not essential if you're in the range, but what a difference it makes if you optimize it.

How in the world do you manually dose 3 tanks and keep it consistent?

I have a pH of 8.5 - 8.6
Reasons are fish room with access to fresh air, minimal human exposure, as g6 skimmer modded with jeabo pumps, minimal fish and crazy flow. I've had systems in the past with pH under 8. They grew sps just as well.

Coral especially sps are multiple environmental imput effected. There's not 1 magic imput that triggers max growth.

I'd bet you have light spectrum/intensity, nutrients, water parameters, flow ,trace elements, ect all locked down and stable for an extended period of time. Only then does the boost in pH really show a small benefit.

 

[DeputyDog95]

I have a pH of 8.5 - 8.6
Reasons are fish room with access to fresh air, minimal human exposure, as g6 skimmer modded with jeabo pumps, minimal fish and crazy flow. I've had systems in the past with pH under 8. They grew sps just as well.

Coral especially sps are multiple environmental imput effected. There's not 1 magic imput that triggers max growth.

I'd bet you have light spectrum/intensity, nutrients, water parameters, flow ,trace elements, ect all locked down and stable for an extended period of time. Only then does the boost in pH really show a small benefit.

Yep. Everything else was taken care of and stable, pH was the last parameter I decided to mess with.

All things being equal, the SPS went bonkers when the pH was boosted. Night and day. The brs pH experiment got me interested, and I've had as good or better results.

 

[Shooter6]

Yep. Everything else was taken care of and stable, pH was the last parameter I decided to mess with.

All things being equal, the SPS went bonkers when the pH was boosted. Night and day. The brs pH experiment got me interested, and I've had as good or better results.

Glad you're having good results with your reef.
Unfortunately the bus experiment has to many newer refers chasing pH sa the magical bullet they think is going to give them an instant reef success. That's just not the case.

 

[exnisstech]

It's not really that complicated if you already have a protein skimmer and are dosing Kalk. Those are the two biggies to manipulate pH. You can simply add a c02 scrubber and dose the Kalk in such a way that it keeps your pH elevated. I have no issues with pH during the day, so I dose Kalk at night to keep my lowest pH point at about 8.3. I guess it depends on your goals and what you're keeping in there. I'm an SPS fan and I want to maximize growth. Nothing I've done to date has had a bigger impact on growth than then I started pushing the pH north of 8.3.

Obviously not essential if you're in the range, but what a difference it makes if you optimize it.

How in the world do you manually dose 3 tanks and keep it consistent?

Thanks for the input. My newest build is sps dominant and a bit of an experiment for me. I'm trying more modern methods just to keep it interesting. First time starting with dry rock and bare bottom using bottled bacteria and am dosing some microbactor 7 bacto balance and aminos. Nothing crazy and frags are looking good. I've been pretty old school on my other tanks. I'll start watching PH on this newest tank just out of curiosity. Adding outside air to the skimmer would be easy peasy on this one. I'm retired and always looking for something to do anyways.

As far as manual dosing, the amounts I dose are small so its easy for me. Every morning I dose 2 part, 20ml to the 180g I drip kalk in and 10ml to each of the other two tanks. I just pour the alk in the overflow and the calcium in the return flow. Been doing it that way for as long as I've been dosing 2 part. My 180 only gets 2 part. The other two tanks get small amounts of MB7, bacto balance and aminos which I also just pour in the tank later in the day. Corals look happy and are growing so I just keep it simple. I never travel that keeps me away over night which is not a luxury a lot people have. I also have a lack of trust in controllers and dosers. To me they introduce too many additional points of failure. As an auto tech for over 30years I've realized that everything will fail at some point its just a matter of when. With my method the only thing that can fail is myself. The 2 parts sits on the back of my toilet so its the first thing I see when I get up and its the first thing I do after the toilet thing

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

The point I was making is chasing pH via kalk dosing is not a wise idea. Ph fluctuates due to multiple environmental issues. Weather, barometric pressure, amount of people, animals in the room ect ect. To many people are now misusing kalk due to the pH buffering effect. Now people are chasing pH like they used to phosphate and nitrates.


How much consumption of dkh do you have? I doubt it's enough that your not able to just shut down the 2 part dosing while dosing kalk at night. Additionally are you dosing 2 part or 3 part?

if your dosing So much kalk at night that your having an increase in dkh lower the kalk dosage or shut down the 2 part and increase kalk to maintain the dkh throughout the nite. Simple solutions.

Randy stated that 50ML of BRS 2 part alk is equal to 2.3 liters of lime water (kalk) or 21.7ML of 2 part alk per 1 liter of lime water (kalk). So in my scenario:
For my 130ish G system I am dosing 120 ML of BRS 2 part (balling) around the clock. To start I would back off of my 2 part for 10 hours at night and switch over to kalk. The dosing amounts would see me remove 5ML per hour of 2 part for 10 hours which would be replaced by a constant drip of 2.3L of lime water during that time. This would then leave me 70 ML of 2 part for the remaining 14 hours. Am I thinking this correctly? I've been wanting to get a trident, this might just be a good excuse...