Kalkwasser via dosing pump NOT ATO

ReeferEric · Dec 23, 2015

Is there a general rule of thumb or is it testing and adjusting dosage when it comes to using a doser? I do not want to do it via ATO, prefer a more controllable method.

Background:
I am currently doing 2-part dosing with ME Coral chemicals and it is more then keeping up but would like to use less of it and more kalkwasser so that I do not run through the chemicals so quick.

I've got an extra Apex DOS sitting around that I will be using. Due to the ability to make adjustments when needed, this is perfect.

Input and advice appreciated.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 23, 2015

A dosing pump is a perfect way to go.

How much of the ME coral chemicals and which ones? Perhaps we can calculate a starting dose.

Dosing something like 1% of the tank water volume each day is a fine start, and you can adjust the potency downward if that is too much saturated limewater.

mcarroll · Dec 23, 2015

Since it sounds like dosing levels may still be small, it seems like stopping two-part "cold turkey" and testing at least once a day combined with using the Reef Chemistry Calculator to get the correct limewater dose going would do the trick. If you want to take a more gradual approach, you can still use testing and the reef chemistry calculator to convert a certain percentage of your two-part to limewater. Just cut your two-part doses by x% and start testing soon after (a day or less?) so you can figure out how much limewater to dose to make up that difference.

I think dosing according to your alkalinity test results is recommended (cheaper to test for one thing), but you can do it by calcium too.

Eventually you may wish to add vinegar to your lime water. The two-part may go away only to be used for periodic adjustments.

ReeferEric · Dec 24, 2015

Great advice from the both of you.

At the moment the intake of 2-part is low. Dosing 33.6ml of ME Coral alkalinity. At the moment I have full saturation of kalkwasser (dump a lot of powder in and then mix water, separate the clear fluid for dosing.) I plan to do it like this so that the saturation does not vary due to human error.

Water volume for both systems are approximately 235G. The new system I would like to start this method right away since I'm still trying to find the sweet spots for dosing. I plan to maximize the dosage with kalkwasser and the rest when needed 2-part.

Considering kalkwasser is a balanced portion of both alkalinity and calcium as we all know. I will be testing according to alkalinity to confirm that it can handle keeping the parameters in line. 2-part will be dialing it in initially and then dosed if needed.

I'll have to go over the Apex DOS system to get a better understand.

Any other advice before I jump into it?

twilliard · Dec 24, 2015

ReeferEric said:
Is there a general rule of thumb or is it testing and adjusting dosage when it comes to using a doser? I do not want to do it via ATO, prefer a more controllable method.

I can control my dosing down to the .1ml an hour 24 hours a day by drip rate.
That is control but unfortunately not by Apex

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 24, 2015

From their web site (which seems quite odd to me that it is so weak of a solution), ME says that 20 mL is needed to boost alkalinity by 0.1 dKH in 100 gallons of aquarium water.

Assuming that is true, then I'd start dosing your tank with about 0.6 liters of saturated limewater per day to roughly match, and start adjusting there based on tank alkalinity.

ReeferEric · Dec 24, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
From their web site (which seems quite odd to me that it is so weak of a solution), ME says that 20 mL is needed to boost alkalinity by 0.1 dKH in 100 gallons of aquarium water.

Assuming that is true, then I'd start dosing your tank with about 0.6 liters of saturated limewater per day to roughly match, and start adjusting there based on tank alkalinity.

I think it's a generic thing because when I mix it's pretty strong.

Could you tell me how you can up with the estimate on dosing the saturated limewater? It's one thing to get an answer but another to truly learn how the answer was achieved.

Thanks again!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 24, 2015

If you know the total alkalinity you want to dose, this calculator shows how much is needed:

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chem_calc3.html

matching the limewater to what you are dosing now in alkalinity is what I did and is a reasonable place to start.

ReeferEric · Dec 24, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
If you know the total alkalinity you want to dose, this calculator shows how much is needed:

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chem_calc3.html

matching the limewater to what you are dosing now in alkalinity is what I did and is a reasonable place to start.

Perfect! According to the calculator it requires .61 gallons to keep up. I'll start off at .5 gallons and test, adjust from there. I know you said .6 liters, maybe a typo and it was suppose to be gallons?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 24, 2015

I meant liters, based on what you were adding and what the ME web site claims.

33.6 mL of that additive boosts alk in 100 gallons of water by 0.17 dKH.
According to the calculator, 0.56 L of limewater will have the same effect.

If you have different data for the potency of your current additive, then the answer would be different.

ReeferEric · Dec 24, 2015

I mix it myself and get it bulk packaging. So my mixture might be stronger as I'm not so exact with his pre-packed stuff. I tend to add a little "extra" with each cup. LOL

For me 33.6ml makes up for .3dKH that the tank takes up.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 24, 2015

ReeferEric said:
I mix it myself and get it bulk packaging. So my mixture might be stronger as I'm not so exact with his pre-packed stuff. I tend to add a little "extra" with each cup. LOL

For me 33.6ml makes up for .3dKH that the tank takes up.

OK, so just calculate based on the alk you add each day.

Anthony christian · Dec 24, 2015

Great article. If I use a calcium reactor in place of the lime water do I still need to dose for alk or will the two balance out just curious

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 24, 2015

By a calcium reactor, you mean a calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactor?

That can provide all of the alkalinity and calcium needs of the tank, but tends to run low in pH. Some people use limewater along with it to keep pH higher.

I compare the methods and combinations of them here:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity

Anthony christian · Dec 24, 2015

Thanks Randy

GainesvilleReef · Dec 24, 2015

This is what I did and do now. The great thing about saturated kalk solution is that is extremely accurate and makes it very easy to dial in. I use the chemistry calculator that Randy referenced. One thing you need to watch out for is your ato. You need to figure out how much top off water you are using and make sure your kalk solution does not exceed that. For safety sake I limit my kalk to 1/2 to 2/3 of my topoff to allow for seasonal variance. When the alk requirement exceeded that I added back in 2-part on top of the kalk dosing.

ReeferEric · Dec 24, 2015

Anthony christian said:
Great article. If I use a calcium reactor in place of the lime water do I still need to dose for alk or will the two balance out just curious

You shouldn't need to as you can adjust the calcium reactor to put out more. From time to time you might have to adjust the levels with 2-part.

Anthony christian · Dec 24, 2015

I just bought a skimz calcium reactor so I am going in this direction and I will be dosing lime water as to keep the pH up close to nsw. My system is 280 gallons mixed reef so I want to get it right.

Anthony christian · Dec 24, 2015

I have been in hobby for long time but I'm am really going at it differently this time alot of past mistakes have caused me much stress. I have been using these liquid color chart test I have ordered a complete set of hanna checkers trying to get more into the accuracy side of testing.

ReeferEric · Dec 24, 2015

My recommendation for test kit are Salifert Ca, Alk, & Mag. Hanna checkers I own are the Phosphate and Ultra Low Phosphate. I use to own the alkalinity checker but it was more work then it was worth.

Like Gainsvillereef said, his method sounds solid. I'm going to have to research it a little before I start doing it.