Kamoer X2SR AWC Self Siphoning - Help!

[Diablojoe]

Hi all,

I bit the bullet and purchased a Kamoer X2SR Auto water change system.

After hooking it up and calibrating it, the pump worked beautifully for 5 days before I was awoken at 2am last night to the inkbird alarm going off.
The waste line started siphoning the water from my sump with the pump turned off. Fortunately only about 5 gallons were lost before the alarm went off and I didn't have any big water swings.



Right now it's sitting unused because I don't want this to happen again.


I have the big soft tubing it comes with reduced to 1/4" RO tubing each way and plumbed through the floor. My tank is on the main floor and the SW reservoir/pump/waste drain are in the basement so I know I'm fighting gravity. Any tips to stop this in the future?

I was thinking of getting a couple check valves for 1/4 line and hoping they're strong enough to resist the siphoning forces but weak enough to open up when the pump turns on.

I dislike the idea of a siphon check valve because depending on how much air gets in the line, which would stop the siphon, it would change the amount of water being pulled from the sump and mess up the calibration no?

 

[CincyReefer07]

I know you posted this roughly a week ago. But I’m wondering if it has to do with the placement of the AWC unit. If it’s going downhill, that might be causing it. I’ve never had mine directly hooked to my tank yet but mocked up in the same locations as where everything is located and how my tubing will be ran using 5 gallon buckets in order to make sure it appears to be working correctly and have it dialed in right. I’ve never had a siphon issue(yet). But my Kamoer AWC unit is mounted higher than everything else. My waste line is just ran along the floor to a basement floor drain

Just taking a guess. A break valve or check valve could work though as well, but you may have to recalibrate it if it’s going to effect flow rates, and will have to adjust for that. I’ve found calibrating the unit to get the exact rate of exchange to be extremely time consuming

 

[Diablojoe]

I know you posted this roughly a week ago. But I’m wondering if it has to do with the placement of the AWC unit. If it’s going downhill, that might be causing it. I’ve never had mine directly hooked to my tank yet but mocked up in the same locations as where everything is located and how my tubing will be ran using 5 gallon buckets in order to make sure it appears to be working correctly and have it dialed in right. I’ve never had a siphon issue(yet). But my Kamoer AWC unit is mounted higher than everything else. My waste line is just ran along the floor to a basement floor drain

Just taking a guess. A break valve or check valve could work though as well, but you may have to recalibrate it if it’s going to effect flow rates, and will have to adjust for that. I’ve found calibrating the unit to get the exact rate of exchange to be extremely time consuming

Are you in Cincinnati as well?
The location definitely is the reason for the auto siphon, luckily installing two check valves was all I needed to stop the siphon. I did have to recalibrate the flow but it wasn’t off by much.
I like this fix the best because it keeps the water in the lines and there’s no air expanding or compressing that may mess up flow or my calibration!

 

[Dburr1014]

Hi all,

I bit the bullet and purchased a Kamoer X2SR Auto water change system.

After hooking it up and calibrating it, the pump worked beautifully for 5 days before I was awoken at 2am last night to the inkbird alarm going off.
The waste line started siphoning the water from my sump with the pump turned off. Fortunately only about 5 gallons were lost before the alarm went off and I didn't have any big water swings.



Right now it's sitting unused because I don't want this to happen again.


I have the big soft tubing it comes with reduced to 1/4" RO tubing each way and plumbed through the floor. My tank is on the main floor and the SW reservoir/pump/waste drain are in the basement so I know I'm fighting gravity. Any tips to stop this in the future?

I was thinking of getting a couple check valves for 1/4 line and hoping they're strong enough to resist the siphoning forces but weak enough to open up when the pump turns on.

I dislike the idea of a siphon check valve because depending on how much air gets in the line, which would stop the siphon, it would change the amount of water being pulled from the sump and mess up the calibration no?

Those are peristaltic pumps. I'm really surprised they would start a syphone. The rollers literally pinch the line preventing this. Unless it is off the line slightly, maybe could happen.

Check valves will fail eventually, it always seems to happen when on vacation.

Where does your waste water go? To a floor drain, sink, outside?
I was starting to have this problem with my ato. I had to make sure the end of the line was higher than the water level of my Reservoir.

In your case, you have to make sure the end of the line is higher than the level of your sump.

What I did was simple. The 1/4" hose I dumped into a 1/2 pvc pipe standing in my sump. It only needed to dump at the top of the pipe that stood higher than the Reservoir.

Perhaps this could be a simple solution for you.

 

[Gtinnel]

If it was indeed the drain line that was causing the siphon of water out of the tank how did you fix it with a check valve?
The siphon would be in the same direction as the normal flow for the line.

Also a properly working peristaltic pump shouldn't allow for flow when it is turned off, because the rollers should have the line completely pinched off.

 

[Diablojoe]

Those are peristaltic pumps. I'm really surprised they would start a syphone. The rollers literally pinch the line preventing this. Unless it is off the line slightly, maybe could happen.

Check valves will fail eventually, it always seems to happen when on vacation.

Where does your waste water go? To a floor drain, sink, outside?
I was starting to have this problem with my ato. I had to make sure the end of the line was higher than the water level of my Reservoir.

In your case, you have to make sure the end of the line is higher than the level of your sump.

What I did was simple. The 1/4" hose I dumped into a 1/2 pvc pipe standing in my sump. It only needed to dump at the top of the pipe that stood higher than the Reservoir.

Perhaps this could be a simple solution for you.

I thought about this as well just having a funnel above the sump that it drops it to but I need the pump in the basement and the only drain I’m sending to the waste water is in the basement as well so I’d have to drill two more holes in the floor which I don’t really want to do.

Im surprised it started one as well, it’s always a slow siphon and I’ve raised my waste line in my sump so even if it does start it won’t pull more than 5 gallons before the line is out of the water and that would stop it again.

 

[CincyReefer07]

Are you in Cincinnati as well?
The location definitely is the reason for the auto siphon, luckily installing two check valves was all I needed to stop the siphon. I did have to recalibrate the flow but it wasn’t off by much.
I like this fix the best because it keeps the water in the lines and there’s no air expanding or compressing that may mess up flow or my calibration!

Yeah I’m just about 15 minutes north of downtown Cincy. You wouldn’t happen to have bought it from Andy at Discover did you? He was messaging me a few weeks or so back about someone asking him what he thought of the Kamoer X2SR.

 

[Dburr1014]

I thought about this as well just having a funnel above the sump that it drops it to but I need the pump in the basement and the only drain I’m sending to the waste water is in the basement as well so I’d have to drill two more holes in the floor which I don’t really want to do.

Im surprised it started one as well, it’s always a slow siphon and I’ve raised my waste line in my sump so even if it does start it won’t pull more than 5 gallons before the line is out of the water and that would stop it again.

Why would you have to drill more holes?
If I'm understanding this, you are pulling waste from the sump. The line only needs to be higher than the sump to prevent any syphone.

 

[bernardo]

Hello everyone I have just bought a x2sr but both my line go to my basement and I have no possibility to have the waste hose higher then my sump, will I have siphoning problems? If so how can I fix this? I haven’t connected anything yet just drilled the holes to my laundry room in the basement where I was hoping to have the x2sr, waste water and fresh saltwater.

 

[bernardo]

Hello everyone I have just bought a x2sr but both my line go to my basement and I have no possibility to have the waste hose higher then my sump, will I have siphoning problems? If so how can I fix this? I haven’t connected anything yet just drilled the holes to my laundry room in the basement where I was hoping to have the x2sr, waste water and fresh saltwater.

 

[Diablojoe]

Are you reducing the lines to 1/4" RO line? That's what I did because I wanted to drill a smaller hole in my floor.

Mine has been running fine without siphoning but I had to get a little creative with the waste out line.

Drill 2 more 1/4" holes and when the waste exits the pump, run a line back upstairs above the height of the sump where it's taking water from and loop it back down to the basement drain. Mine's just looped to the back of my display tank where you cant see it and maybe a foot above where the waste input line is from the tank. This way you don't have to fight gravity or rely on the pump to seal it and it won't siphon on you.

For the freshwater top off, I just ran a line from my RODI in the basement straight to the ATO with a manual valve that I can turn on and off when I want to fill my ATO back up. I plan on getting a float valve for it eventually. The water pressure from the RODI is more than sufficient to make it upstairs; this way I don't need to run that sensor that comes with it through the floor or rely on a pump.

 

[Diablojoe]

Yeah I’m just about 15 minutes north of downtown Cincy. You wouldn’t happen to have bought it from Andy at Discover did you? He was messaging me a few weeks or so back about someone asking him what he thought of the Kamoer X2SR.

Yeah that's who I was talking to about it I was with him when he text you!

Why would you have to drill more holes?
If I'm understanding this, you are pulling waste from the sump. The line only needs to be higher than the sump to prevent any syphone.

Check out the diagram in my previous comment. Needed to drill two more holes in the floor to get the exit waste water back above the sump.

You were 100% correct about the check valves. Those were garbage, they ended up getting clogged with debris and messing up my waste out calibration so the salinity would start creeping up on me.

The diagram posted is what I currently have hooked up and seems to be the simplest solution. "K.I.S.S." right? I was surprised the peristaltic pumps started a siphon too. Investigating it after every siphoning incident found it only occurred when the pump stopped at one specific spot where the bottom roller was at about the 7 o clock position. Just enough to not have a full cinch on the line.

Overall I'm happy with the X2SR.

Just be sure not only to calibrate the pumps if you're reducing the line, but to test it after the calibration!
I blindly trusted the calibration for the first two months but found that I had to calibrate it then test it a couple times with the manual discharge after calibration because sometimes it would be off by 10-15%!

 

[louisp]

Well, after a year of random but major and sudden salinity drops, i finally realized that its the x2sr that to blame, when stopped in a certain position it WILL in fact start to syphon out of the tubes. Which was causing my ATO to replace the saltwater with freshwater. Not good. Seems like a design flaw, and it surprises me that this product is still on the market. Has anyone had any luck with support to find a solution?

 

[Dburr1014]

I'm guessing they have a 2 roller assembly. You will need to find a 3 or 4 roller assembly.

For instance, DOS from neptune has there roller assembly with 2 wheels. I was able to find a 4 wheel roller assembly from avast marine works.

Your going to have to measure the whole thing, dia, height, drive type, ect. And do some leg work if nobody has done this yet.

 

[Diablojoe]

It actually has a three roller assembly.

I’ve fixed my self siphoning by adding a loop to the discharge line above the intake hose, as well as opening the assembly and making sure the screw closest to hose has been tightened extremely well. This gives it just enough pressure to stop the siphon.

 

[louisp]

It actually has a three roller assembly.

I’ve fixed my self siphoning by adding a loop to the discharge line above the intake hose, as well as opening the assembly and making sure the screw closest to hose has been tightened extremely well. This gives it just enough pressure to stop the siphon.

they sent me a new roller set and tubes, is it even worth swapping them out?
My setup doesn't really let me loop anything higher than the discharge hose. Since i got this, I now have an apex base unit. DO you think I am better just selling this unit and getting a DOS? My tank is on 25G so the speed really isn't an issue.