Keeping a small shoal of Bartlet anthias

[Cthulukelele]

I really like the look of Bartlet anthias, and they would do well in my 4' 120g aquarium. Ideally I'd have a small shoal of 4.

The problem is I've seen a lot of talk online about them all turning male. Is there any way to make this less likely? What can I do to curb aggression? Is there any way to make male transition less likely? How likely are they to all murder each other if they turn male?

Thanks!

 

[ca1ore]

Space and food ..... you’ll still end up with multiple males, and they’ll still bicker ..... but perhaps not homicidally so.

 

[Cthulukelele]

Space and food ..... you’ll still end up with multiple males, and they’ll still bicker ..... but perhaps not homicidally so.

Is there an ideal group size? Is much known on what sparks transition?

 

[ca1ore]

Bartlett can get to a good size, 4” when fully mature. Size of the tank thus dictates the group numbers. In a 4’ tank, no more than 5 in my view. No idea what spurs or suppresses multiple dudes.

 

[Kmsutows]

It's all a matter of dominance.. whichever one comes out as top dog makes the transition. Sometimes a female will feel they can challenge the male and start the transition also but that usually happens when someone buys a small male and large females which is a no no as the male will likely die. Try and get all the same size females or just one that is larger and all the rest smaller. One will change to male eventually. I wouldn't add less than 4

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

I have 8 of them in my 180. Started with 2 males and 6 females all similar sized. 4 of the females turned to male so at that point I had 6 males and 2 females. Now 2 of the males have turned back to females so I have 4 of each. There is some bickering, but generally they get along. Beautiful fish.

 

[Cthulukelele]

I have 8 of them in my 180. Started with 2 males and 6 females all similar sized. 4 of the females turned to male so at that point I had 6 males and 2 females. Now 2 of the males have turned back to females so I have 4 of each. There is some bickering, but generally they get along. Beautiful fish.

It's all a matter of dominance.. whichever one comes out as top dog makes the transition. Sometimes a female will feel they can challenge the male and start the transition also but that usually happens when someone buys a small male and large females which is a no no as the male will likely die. Try and get all the same size females or just one that is larger and all the rest smaller. One will change to male eventually. I wouldn't add less than 4

Bartlett can get to a good size, 4” when fully mature. Size of the tank thus dictates the group numbers. In a 4’ tank, no more than 5 in my view. No idea what spurs or suppresses multiple dudes.

Gosh they're beautiful. I was probably gonna go with 4 females and have 3 of them be smaller hopefully. I figure that'd set me up for success. Also plan to set up my autofeeder to feed small amounts a few times a day.

 

[cracker]

This is interesting, I didn't know they could turn back to female . Either way my theory of adding a" bunch " like 10 all at once is best ,the bully's are too busy to pick on just one fish. Adding this many fish can get pricy real quick .
Iv'e had all bad experience with just 3 .

 

[ca1ore]

This is interesting, I didn't know they could turn back to female.

I don't think they can. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ….. in this case, picture of the back transition.

 

[ca1ore]

It's all a matter of dominance.. whichever one comes out as top dog makes the transition. Sometimes a female will feel they can challenge the male and start the transition also but that usually happens when someone buys a small male and large females which is a no no as the male will likely die. Try and get all the same size females or just one that is larger and all the rest smaller. One will change to male eventually. I wouldn't add less than 4

This is true generally for pseudoanthias, but not for bartletts.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

I don't think they can. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ….. in this case, picture of the back transition.

There seems to be some debate about if it's possible for a male to turn back to female, and I don't have photo evidence of the change. I could certainly be wrong about the changes too. I just noted that when I received them 2 had male coloration, and 6 had female coloration. At one point it appeared that 6 of them had male coloration, and at this moment 4 of them have male coloration (when I refer to male coloration it is exactly as the picture I posted). I am no anthias expert by a long shot, so these are just my anecdotal observations of my own tank. I have had the anthias since 4/24/2018

 

[Cthulukelele]

This is interesting, I didn't know they could turn back to female . Either way my theory of adding a" bunch " like 10 all at once is best ,the bully's are too busy to pick on just one fish. Adding this many fish can get pricy real quick .
Iv'e had all bad experience with just 3 .

Do you think it'd be more likely to have success if I added a few larger fish first or let them duke out pecking order BEFORE I introduce other fish?

 

[cracker]

I coulldn't tell Ya Friend. Don't know enough. Now "eat breakfast" is the fish behavior expert here. iv't talked about this same subject .

 

[Kmsutows]

Do you think it'd be more likely to have success if I added a few larger fish first or let them duke out pecking order BEFORE I introduce other fish?

Nooo I would Not recommend!

And yes males can change back to female but I think it's more common for only a semi transition back where they maintain some male characteristics

 

[Cthulukelele]

Nooo I would Not recommend!

And yes males can change back to female but I think it's more common for only a semi transition back where they maintain some male characteristics

So you would suggest adding the anthias AFTER having some other established larger fish? I wasn't sure which option you were adamantly for in this scenario

I coulldn't tell Ya Friend. Don't know enough. Now "eat breakfast" is the fish behavior expert here. iv't talked about this same subject .

Thanks for the referral! I'll shoot them a message!

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve had many hundreds of anthias over 30 years of feeding ...... had plenty of females turn to male, but never the other way around ..... not once. Clowns, yes; anthias no. I suppose it’s possible that an initial phase male reverted, but once terminal .....

In terms of adding other fish first, don’t think it matters. I have a lot of larger fish and my Bartlett’s just ignore them. Too busy chasing each other.

 

[Kmsutows]

So you would suggest adding the anthias AFTER having some other established larger fish? I wasn't sure which option you were adamantly for in this scenario

Thanks for the referral! I'll shoot them a message!

Ahhh my bad I thought you were still talking about anthias. As ca1ore said, I dont think it matters at that point

 

[Cthulukelele]

Ahhh my bad I thought you were still talking about anthias. As ca1ore said, I dont think it matters at that point

So they likely WOULDN'T play nice with other anthias? I was only planning on having one group, but that's still good information

 

[Kmsutows]

So they likely WOULDN'T play nice with other anthias? I was only planning on having one group, but that's still good information

I thought you meant large ones first as in larger Bartletts first. Other anthias would completely depend on what kind your talking about but generally speaking they should get along with other anthias.

 

[eatbreakfast]

It's possible for initial phase males to transition backwards, terminal males do not. Sometimes subdominant males will look similar to females to fly under the radar.

Lots of other fish can distract them, high flow and frequent feedings help lower aggression. However a 4' tank doesn't afford enough space for a small group of bartletts.