Keeping it dirty

[Jeremy Luke]

A little over a year ago I started up my current tank which is my third. This tank would be focused on SPS with strong flow and tried and true halide lighting with T5 supplement. The tank did ok (not great) until April of this year some things went wrong while I was gone on a business trip. My top off system failed and my wife tried to fish out a dead fire shrimp with a large net with the pumps still blasting. I ended up with some bleached out / dead coral and several pieces lying in the sand from my wife's fishing expedition. Coral that was still alive looked rather pale and stopped showing any PE.

I admittedly became a bit discouraged and have been neglecting my tank. I removed the dead coral laying on the sand bed, the dead coral still glued to the rock I simply left.

A few weeks ago I went out of town for a week. As my wife would be gone too I set up my auto feeder and filled it with a mix of pellets and flakes. I set it to dump a good amount twice a day. When I returned home the the sand bed was quite colorful and the glass was heavily coated. As I peered closer at the filthy tank I was amazed. The pale colored coral was vibrant. PE was better than I have witnessed before. Pieces that I thought were dead now had color and PE. The coral looked by far better than it ever has. I have also never previously experienced such a rapid, dramatic positive reaction in my SPS. I left again for a long weekend and let it get the auto-feeding dump. I just returned and it again continues to look great and Alk consumption has doubled over this period of time.

I previously meticulously kept my PO4 at .03-.05 ppm (Hanna ULR) while still feeding the tank coral food and aminos. I haven't bothered checking it recently but based on the colorful sand bed and the rate of algae growth on the glass I am certain PO4 is significantly higher. Right now I'm just focused on slowly raising my alkalinity back to 8 as it had dropped to 7 (from 8.5) during the week long trip though it was being auto dosed (as always) during my absence.

I know every tank is different but I will be keeping my tank much dirtier moving forward because I am now seeing the color and health that I had always sought.

 

[WV Reefer]

A little over a year ago I started up my current tank which is my third. This tank would be focused on SPS with strong flow and tried and true halide lighting with T5 supplement. The tank did ok (not great) until April of this year some things went wrong while I was gone on a business trip. My top off system failed and my wife tried to fish out a dead fire shrimp with a large net with the pumps still blasting. I ended up with some bleached out / dead coral and several pieces lying in the sand from my wife's fishing expedition. Coral that was still alive looked rather pale and stopped showing any PE.

I admittedly became a bit discouraged and have been neglecting my tank. I removed the dead coral laying on the sand bed, the dead coral still glued to the rock I simply left.

A few weeks ago I went out of town for a week. As my wife would be gone too I set up my auto feeder and filled it with a mix of pellets and flakes. I set it to dump a good amount twice a day. When I returned home the the sand bed was quite colorful and the glass was heavily coated. As I peered closer at the filthy tank I was amazed. The pale colored coral was vibrant. PE was better than I have witnessed before. Pieces that I thought were dead now had color and PE. The coral looked by far better than it ever has. I have also never previously experienced such a rapid, dramatic positive reaction in my SPS. I left again for a long weekend and let it get the auto-feeding dump. I just returned and it again continues to look great and Alk consumption has doubled over this period of time.

I previously meticulously kept my PO4 at .03-.05 ppm (Hanna ULR) while still feeding the tank coral food and aminos. I haven't bothered checking it recently but based on the colorful sand bed and the rate of algae growth on the glass I am certain PO4 is significantly higher. Right now I'm just focused on slowly raising my alkalinity back to 8 as it had dropped to 7 (from 8.5) during the week long trip though it was being auto dosed (as always) during my absence.

I know every tank is different but I will be keeping my tank much dirtier moving forward because I am now seeing the color and health that I had always sought.

Welcome to the dark side! I run both of my reefs “dirty”..... no filter, no skimmer, no sump.

 

[MontiFanatic402]

I have also noticed that nutrients are a good/great thing for SPS!! KEEP IT DIRTY!

 

[ZaneTer]

Another fan of a dirty tank here. I get tired of the complaint of “it grows algae”. Yes, yes it does. Get yourself an interesting herbivore and enjoy an algae free high nutrient tank.

 

[lifetramp]

I think that SPS need a level of NO3、PO4。Sometimes keep NO3、PO4 can make your SPS healthy

 

[KenO]

Sea hares can eat a lot of algae.

 

[DEWreefing]

Pictures?

 

[Ashish Patel]

I noticed a similar thing when returning from a 5 day vacation. PE was fluffy and even noticed new growth . I now turn off my skimmer often and have a auto feeder drop pellets in my return pump area of the sump twice per day. Pellet float and eventually sink and find there way to tank for constant food. Evenings I feed a good amount of reef frenzy. Nitrates I keep at 3-5ppm and phosphates pretty steady around 0.03. Corals eventually bc the nutrient export and everything else should be used as needed.

 

[BluewaterLa]

Most new folks to the hobby tend to not understand what running a tank ''Dirty'' means and take it that neglect will prevail or sub par conditions are best, Maybe somewhere along these lines but we all should get the point.

Keeping a tank ''dirty'' does not mean true neglect but more so a controlled amount of Detritus , flock and nutrients to stay within the reef tank so that you have a diverse ecosystem with a more complete food chain.

Reef Keeping at home is a closed system that is void of most natural food sources on the tiny scale of plankton and the likes.
Due to this closed system we are either plagued with a tank that is too Clean / sterile OR the complete opposite with a tank that is over stocked, over fed , undersized / inefficient filtration, rushed to get a full reef look and lack of understanding.
Closed systems are limited to what the care taker is willing to add or not add to the tank for most anything that can be discussed.

The ocean on the other hand Does have nutrients in silly low numbers but here is where most folks miss the point or choose to not see the whole picture...
The ocean has an unlimited supply of Nutrients ( Phosphate, Nitrate, and XWY-123 ) So this silly low number that some try and replicate is Not an unlimited supply for their Closed system reef tank like it is in the ocean.
Further more Our oceans are filled with a multitude of Tiny critters which are food sources for corals, fish that Poop, Algae and phytoplankton, Pods, Blah blah blah ( You should see my point here ) That corals eat.
The constant feeding, digestion and expelling of waste all creates Dissolved organics / nutrition / amino & fatty acids in the water column for all forms of life to consume & utilize in one form or another, All in unlimited supply even given how sparce they seem in numbers of testing values.

We simply can not expect to keep a thriving ecosystem incomplete Lacking nutrients, algae, detritus / flock along with the micro and macro fauna that this stuff supports.
Advanced hobbiest using ULNS that are successful long term Understand this process and more often than not are using one company or anothers Complete line of products to keep the tank Low on Nutrients but adding Amino Acids among other things to keep the corals fed enough to live.

Where we see issues with this ONE methodology of reef keeping is when folks use part of the system not fully buying into all the products or Method thus having a Nutrient deficient tank that is unbalanced in one form or another and corals usually starve out.
There is a huge amount of information to absorb in this hobby and it takes many of us Years /decades to get to the point of understanding the Big Picture. Not to say those of us who do understand the depth of what we are doing are the end all be all authority of reefing, NOR do we know it all or claim to know everything.
Experience through failure, frustration leading to learning and understanding Coupled with a true passion for this hobby along with the willingness to stick with it for Most our lives has lead to a wealth of knowledge / Experience / Understanding and Love for salty critters.

Some folks like the pastel coloration of corals, some do not and that is fine with me as long as your happy and your corals are thriving good for you and them.
I for one strive to keep my system as natural as possible and understand that a Super clean sterile looking perfect reef is not one that is complete and often will not stay that way as it matures.
All we can do at this point in time is understand that our corals need Dissolved nutrients in the water column as they do absorb elements and nutrition through their tissues. They utilize absorbed nutrients / elements directly for themselves and for the zooxanthelle within their tissue.
Further into this What we can test for nutrient wise is Phosphate and Nitrate, Is this the total picture of Nutrients in the tank ??
Likely NOT. Though we can test for these two organics and learn to dial in what levels are acceptable for our Own reef ecosystem to get the balance between coral nutrition, chemistry, lighting and flow as the basics of Life support.
Testing and understanding the Nitrate / phosphate levels in your tank as a WINDOW into the nutrient factor of our tanks is the general idea. If we are keeping X level of these two in our tanks for ecosystem health & nutrition along with some detritus flock then we can follow the line of We have more good stuff in the water for our organisms to feed upon.
This could and likely includes aminos, fatty acids among other things from the food chain consumption, digestion and decomposition taking place daily in the system.

So in short there is more to the story always, Plus we must ensure that our discussions or Phrases used have explanation here and there as to not mislead new folks or folks who are in the process of furthering their hobby skills / understanding.
I've always allowed my sump to collect a small to medium amount of detritus / flock.
Have come to the understanding that using felt socks constantly is not good for MY reef so I use mesh socks for most of the time to allow smaller particles to stay in the system.
Feed my fish till they are nice and hefty not fearing algae or nutrients getting too high because I have more than adequate mechanical and biological filtration on my tanks.
Keep everything stable as possible with any changes slow that must be or I choose to make.
Allow my corals to tell me where the happy point is for Nutrient levels by several factors including growth and coloration.

Ps.
I see all the detail of my reef including the algae in a few forms that sometimes drive me nuts, this is just me and what I see or observe.
When others come to see my tank they do not take notice to most of what I do as they are busy appreciating the beauty of the fish and corals within the tank. While I point out some things I do not like or need to attend to, They are complimenting my tank and making statements like ' I wish my tank looked this nice and healthy "
My tank is no where near perfect, it is not Super clean / sterile. It is however a thriving ecosystem packed with many life forms I never knowingly added that help complete my living reef.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Bluewater - you should get post of the year for that one...

 

[jda]

Every living organism needs building blocks as well as true nutrient. N and P are important as building blocks - glucose, glycerol is still the main "nutrient" that zoox can provide. Corals can also get nutrients from ammonia. Lighting is a huge deal since it feeds the zoox which then feed the coral. I think that where people get confused is that they chase an absolute number when throughput is what is important. Having high residual N and P can still inhibit calcification but is still better than having none - lots of people are going this way nowadays. I am sill of the school that having low N and P numbers, yet having massive through put with large fish feedings but also large export is the best way to go.

BRS said this well in their ZeoVit tank video - they said something like "this is one of the highest nutrient tanks that we have ever seen, but the numbers are low when we test." This is right on the money, IMO.

I will take my massively fed tanks with .1n and .005 to .01p with heavy export any day. I have had good success with N as high as 2 and P as high as .25, but after that, growth and color start to suffer... but not as much as they would with no throughput and very low N and P which happens a lot with people putting GFO and carbon reactors on tanks from day one since they watched some video or read some article on how they need to do this.

 

[Big E]

Here is another analogy I use a lot about explaining why throughput is more important than test results.

A 100g Acropora dominant tank with 3 fish and Po4 of .03 isn't the same as a 100g with 6 fish and a Po4 of the same .03

You're providing more food to feed the fish thus inputting more nutrients. More fish also produce ammonium and urea that the corals can take in directly.

Think of this all at the microbial level.......the bacteria are always first in line. If you use a commercial bacterial system or carbon dose you are creating a situation where the nutrient consuming bacteria are competing with the symbiotic bacteria that reside on each coral.

Algae does the same thing...........it's competing with the corals for those nutrients.

You have to find a balance for your system as no one is going to have the same bioload of fish, corals, ect.

 

[Ferrell]

Most new folks to the hobby tend to not understand what running a tank ''Dirty'' means and take it that neglect will prevail or sub par conditions are best, Maybe somewhere along these lines but we all should get the point.

Keeping a tank ''dirty'' does not mean true neglect but more so a controlled amount of Detritus , flock and nutrients to stay within the reef tank so that you have a diverse ecosystem with a more complete food chain.

Reef Keeping at home is a closed system that is void of most natural food sources on the tiny scale of plankton and the likes.
Due to this closed system we are either plagued with a tank that is too Clean / sterile OR the complete opposite with a tank that is over stocked, over fed , undersized / inefficient filtration, rushed to get a full reef look and lack of understanding.
Closed systems are limited to what the care taker is willing to add or not add to the tank for most anything that can be discussed.

The ocean on the other hand Does have nutrients in silly low numbers but here is where most folks miss the point or choose to not see the whole picture...
The ocean has an unlimited supply of Nutrients ( Phosphate, Nitrate, and XWY-123 ) So this silly low number that some try and replicate is Not an unlimited supply for their Closed system reef tank like it is in the ocean.
Further more Our oceans are filled with a multitude of Tiny critters which are food sources for corals, fish that Poop, Algae and phytoplankton, Pods, Blah blah blah ( You should see my point here ) That corals eat.
The constant feeding, digestion and expelling of waste all creates Dissolved organics / nutrition / amino & fatty acids in the water column for all forms of life to consume & utilize in one form or another, All in unlimited supply even given how sparce they seem in numbers of testing values.

We simply can not expect to keep a thriving ecosystem incomplete Lacking nutrients, algae, detritus / flock along with the micro and macro fauna that this stuff supports.
Advanced hobbiest using ULNS that are successful long term Understand this process and more often than not are using one company or anothers Complete line of products to keep the tank Low on Nutrients but adding Amino Acids among other things to keep the corals fed enough to live.

Where we see issues with this ONE methodology of reef keeping is when folks use part of the system not fully buying into all the products or Method thus having a Nutrient deficient tank that is unbalanced in one form or another and corals usually starve out.
There is a huge amount of information to absorb in this hobby and it takes many of us Years /decades to get to the point of understanding the Big Picture. Not to say those of us who do understand the depth of what we are doing are the end all be all authority of reefing, NOR do we know it all or claim to know everything.
Experience through failure, frustration leading to learning and understanding Coupled with a true passion for this hobby along with the willingness to stick with it for Most our lives has lead to a wealth of knowledge / Experience / Understanding and Love for salty critters.

Some folks like the pastel coloration of corals, some do not and that is fine with me as long as your happy and your corals are thriving good for you and them.
I for one strive to keep my system as natural as possible and understand that a Super clean sterile looking perfect reef is not one that is complete and often will not stay that way as it matures.
All we can do at this point in time is understand that our corals need Dissolved nutrients in the water column as they do absorb elements and nutrition through their tissues. They utilize absorbed nutrients / elements directly for themselves and for the zooxanthelle within their tissue.
Further into this What we can test for nutrient wise is Phosphate and Nitrate, Is this the total picture of Nutrients in the tank ??
Likely NOT. Though we can test for these two organics and learn to dial in what levels are acceptable for our Own reef ecosystem to get the balance between coral nutrition, chemistry, lighting and flow as the basics of Life support.
Testing and understanding the Nitrate / phosphate levels in your tank as a WINDOW into the nutrient factor of our tanks is the general idea. If we are keeping X level of these two in our tanks for ecosystem health & nutrition along with some detritus flock then we can follow the line of We have more good stuff in the water for our organisms to feed upon.
This could and likely includes aminos, fatty acids among other things from the food chain consumption, digestion and decomposition taking place daily in the system.

So in short there is more to the story always, Plus we must ensure that our discussions or Phrases used have explanation here and there as to not mislead new folks or folks who are in the process of furthering their hobby skills / understanding.
I've always allowed my sump to collect a small to medium amount of detritus / flock.
Have come to the understanding that using felt socks constantly is not good for MY reef so I use mesh socks for most of the time to allow smaller particles to stay in the system.
Feed my fish till they are nice and hefty not fearing algae or nutrients getting too high because I have more than adequate mechanical and biological filtration on my tanks.
Keep everything stable as possible with any changes slow that must be or I choose to make.
Allow my corals to tell me where the happy point is for Nutrient levels by several factors including growth and coloration.

Ps.
I see all the detail of my reef including the algae in a few forms that sometimes drive me nuts, this is just me and what I see or observe.
When others come to see my tank they do not take notice to most of what I do as they are busy appreciating the beauty of the fish and corals within the tank. While I point out some things I do not like or need to attend to, They are complimenting my tank and making statements like ' I wish my tank looked this nice and healthy "
My tank is no where near perfect, it is not Super clean / sterile. It is however a thriving ecosystem packed with many life forms I never knowingly added that help complete my living reef.

If I had three hands I’d give you 3 thumbs up

 

[BluewaterLa]

Bluewater - you should get post of the year for that one...

If I had three hands I’d give you 3 thumbs up

Thanks for the kind words my fellow reef geeks.
I take what I know, my understanding and every bit of my experience and pass it along in ways most can understand without having to read for hours some literature with words we need a dictionary or google to understand the meanings. LOL.
I find in my years of talking reef with others Locally that breaking things down to simple forms is the quickest way to get others to understand what we are talking about, doing and striving for with our tanks.
Far less intimidating to new folks and persons who have been in the hobby for a while but still learning to not only understand how I explain things but they do not feel as if they need to be a biologist or chemist to be successful in the hobby.
Sure I get that it is fun to speak geek and stay all technical with discussions or explanations but I do not see the point when its so much easier to understand and follow along if we are Not conversing like we are writing the next scientific published paper on the subject.
More importantly I believe that all of us learn differently in many ways, this has nothing to do with intelligent level, IQ or understanding of our hobby though its a great thing when everyone can understand in depth without having to get a degree in Reefing