Kessil 360X Testing

[Dana Riddle]

If it is the same company I am thinking of I really like how they are laying out their units like the VYPRx. I understand the various form factors, myself included by using a single multi channel, but sometimes I think a bar similar to a florescent tube is more ideal. Then just replicate and add if more light is necessary.

Yes, Fluence Bioengineering builds the VYPRx, SPYDRx and others. Their chief engineer, Scott, developed a way to dissipate the heat in the large units without use of fans (the multiple, thin heat sinks are machined out of solid blocks of aluminum.) This company was previously BuildMyLED, and Nick and Scott recently sold the company to Ushio. I visited their plant when it was housed in a building of maybe 1,500 square feet - the new place is huge and was running 3 shifts. As a footnote, Orphek has filled the void left by BML, and will custom build (spectrally) LED units per customers' specs.

 

[oreo54]

As a footnote, Orphek has filled the void left by BML, and will custom build (spectrally) LED units per customers' specs.

Yes and "IF" (it's supposed to be a when) they offer dimmable drivers they will get fully up to speed...
Note though diode choice is limited but not bad..

 

[oreo54]

As far as par, the reality is that the kessil light could probably put out more par by allowing the blue diodes to stay maxed while the white diodes are increased.

yea the whole thing is a coherent "guess" (stripped as to not take up too much space.. but I'd prefer Kessil explain it ..

Kessil has very little "wasted" (and arguable) photons..
Sorry 350..but assume quite similar in spectrum. Certainly not 40-ish%....

 

[naoki]

Yes, Fluence Bioengineering builds the VYPRx, SPYDRx and others. Their chief engineer, Scott, developed a way to dissipate the heat in the large units without use of fans (the multiple, thin heat sinks are machined out of solid blocks of aluminum.) This company was previously BuildMyLED, and Nick and Scott recently sold the company to Ushio. I visited their plant when it was housed in a building of maybe 1,500 square feet - the new place is huge and was running 3 shifts. As a footnote, Orphek has filled the void left by BML, and will custom build (spectrally) LED units per customers' specs.

That's too bad you didn't get to use their sphere! I didn't know they were sold to Ushio, now.

In this paper, they compare the integrating sphere vs flat plane integration (I think full text is available to everyone):

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

With the flat plane integration, PPFD is calculated at multiple points (basically like Dana's PPFD maps), and then the total flux is estimated from these. I can vaguely understand the principle, but does anyone know exactly how it is calculated? Maybe we could get the rough estimate of efficiency from the digitized PPFD maps (the companies who don't reveal the basic spec. seem to show PPFD maps frequently for the practical purpose).

 

[EJReef]

The X is weaker than the A360WE and with less spread? Huh?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Yes, Fluence Bioengineering builds the VYPRx, SPYDRx and others. Their chief engineer, Scott, developed a way to dissipate the heat in the large units without use of fans (the multiple, thin heat sinks are machined out of solid blocks of aluminum.) This company was previously BuildMyLED, and Nick and Scott recently sold the company to Ushio. I visited their plant when it was housed in a building of maybe 1,500 square feet - the new place is huge and was running 3 shifts. As a footnote, Orphek has filled the void left by BML, and will custom build (spectrally) LED units per customers' specs.

I misspoke - the chief engineer at Fluence is Randy Johnson, not *Scott*. The memory of an old man.

 

[Proteus Meep]

Of course, there might also be technical / design reasons behind the way the kessil logic works, such as trying to limit too much heat if all diodes were allowed to run at maximum for instance.!

Exactly the way i see it, a dense matrix array with its closely bunched diodes would produce a lot of heat if ramped up and need much more significant/loud cooling to stop it burning out...

But "kessil logic" does sound better

 

[hart24601]

Very interesting. Does anyone have the wattage pull for the old a360 at the wall?

These don't seem like a huge upgrade over the old a360 except for pwm dimming particularly on launch since many of the options like lens and wifi are not out yet. Adding colors imo seems to defeat the argument of “kessil logic” where you just turn one knob for color. Many has suspected that term was really a positive spin kessil marketing put on limited features.


I do like kessils and think they do have a great role in some tanks, but for the long wait for a new model it seems underwhelming.

 

[ca1ore]

I've just placed an order for one 360X and the new controller so I can see for myself.

 

[ws6kid]

Just received one for fun. Shimmer on my tank is way too much and I feel like I would need 5 of these things to get the tank to feel anywhere near as bright as the ATI 8 bulb that I have. The controller doesn't allow you to go brighter than the knobs on top does it? Was hoping to replace my old ATI, but I could never look at the tank with this light over it and think it was bright enough front to back.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Some spectral data.

 

[oreo54]

Even if one assumes driver wattage compensates for "PUR" differences the "whitest" setting should output the most power, but it's the 50/50 one that does..

 

[User1]

Some spectral data.

I like the graphs. However I'm afraid to ask what a similar series of 3 graphs would look like for a soft, sps, and mixed reef actual needs. Meaning if you wanted to keep these sort of tanks what is the ideal spectral composition that one turns the nobs, dials, or bars to be it manual or controller for success.

Side note - interesting on the green spread. I have some older multi channel chips that have 12 limes and it complements my other LED's nicely.

Edit: Forgot to say thank you for the graphs

 

[Daniel Waters]

Even if one assumes driver wattage compensates for "PUR" differences the "whitest" setting should output the most power, but it's the 50/50 one that does..

Hmmm....It's my belief that at the 50% color setting, the blue and white LEDs are kept at maximum intensity (or whatever intensity setting is selected). Increasing the color setting from there, I believe the "kessil logic" begins dropping the power to the blue LEDs (effectively making the tank whiter by having less blue). I can't say for sure this is what happens, but this would explain why the 50% color setting produces the highest par numbers and has the highest wattage. I wonder if there is some easy way to verify if this is really what is happening? I can play with my kessil controller and alter the color settings, and it's very obvious vusually that as the color goes from 0% to 50% that the various white LEDs begin getting used and increased in intensity. Above 50% color setting, the tank certainly gets whiter, but I can't tell visually if it's the white LEDs getting brighter or less blues being used. It seems like the whites are getting brighter. I guess it's possible the whites get brighter and blues decreased at the same time. Depending on the number of blue LEDs and the drop in blue intensity relative to the white LEDs, this could still result in a decrease in wattage versus the 50% color setting. Anyway, outside my realm of expertise.

 

[d0m1n4t3]

So after seeing those spectral graphs... anyone know what the violet, red, and green settings on the controller X do? They all default to zero regardless of the color setting.... so the setting must be ?adding? more of those components relative to the default in the current color setting?

 

[tsav87]

So after seeing those spectral graphs... anyone know what the violet, red, and green settings on the controller X do? They all default to zero regardless of the color setting.... so the setting must be ?adding? more of those components relative to the default in the current color setting?

According to Kessil, those are used for visual appeal. And I can tell you from personal experience, the violet makes the coral colors much bolder.

 

[User1]

According to Kessil, those are used for visual appeal. And I can tell you from personal experience, the violet makes the coral colors much bolder.

Is it just me or does it seem there is a lot of wasted light or light spill?

By the way - nice tank. I really like the aquascape.

 

[tsav87]

Is it just me or does it seem there is a lot of wasted light or light spill?

By the way - nice tank. I really like the aquascape.

Thanks, yeh they are a bit high. Keeps the shadows to a minimum in the tank though. It’s 24” front to back. Having them that high,8.5” off the water, allows them to reflect off the sides of the glass better than when they are lower.

 

[oreo54]

Hmmm....It's my belief that ,,,,

no offense to you intended but that is sort of the point.. "beliefs"...just like mine..

but this would explain why the 50% color setting produces the highest par numbers and has the highest wattage.

That's expected w/ every led anywhere...

This is the "old" a350 as dissected ..

 

[Dana Riddle]

I like the graphs. However I'm afraid to ask what a similar series of 3 graphs would look like for a soft, sps, and mixed reef actual needs. Meaning if you wanted to keep these sort of tanks what is the ideal spectral composition that one turns the nobs, dials, or bars to be it manual or controller for success.

Side note - interesting on the green spread. I have some older multi channel chips that have 12 limes and it complements my other LED's nicely.

Edit: Forgot to say thank you for the graphs

When dealing with lighting sources designed for reef aquaria, I tend to think intensity is more important than spectral quality (as long as a *reasonable* light source is used.)