Kessil output decay over time?

[techdef]

Kessil,

Hi there, I just finished a set of measurements using the BRS rental Apogee MQ510 meter. Overall, nothing surprising (thankfully), but there's a noticeable difference in output from each of my 4 lights, measured directly beneath each one. I'm wondering how much light loss / decay is normal or expected over the life of an LED light?

(4) 360 WE Tuna Sun
2 of them are 5 years old, 1 is 3 years, 1 is 1 year. Its really easy to tell which is which. Measuring about 15% different PAR between newest and oldest. Is that normal?

thanks,

 

[Kyl]

Heat kills LED lifetimes. How often do you fully clean both the housing and the heat sink assembly? And by fully clean, I mean not just spraying some compressed air in there.

And yes, lifetime of diodes will vary by many factors. UV channels will be the first to have reduced out put for most diodes on the market. I'm not sure of Kessil's official figures (I don't believe they're listed anywhere), but most lighting manufacturers, outside of this hobby, will state MTBF or minimum degradation levels over X number of hours.

 

[techdef]

Fully clean? I follow the instructions in the manual Compressed air and vacuum monthly.

I’d certainly expect some MTBF on any electronic item so not surprised to see change. Not intended to say that. I may actually be more impressed that at 5 years they’re still doing 90% of new.

I do also see on Kessil FAQ 35000 hours or 5-7 years intended lifespan.

 

[User1]

Heat kills LED lifetimes. How often do you fully clean both the housing and the heat sink assembly? And by fully clean, I mean not just spraying some compressed air in there.

And yes, lifetime of diodes will vary by many factors. UV channels will be the first to have reduced out put for most diodes on the market. I'm not sure of Kessil's official figures (I don't believe they're listed anywhere), but most lighting manufacturers, outside of this hobby, will state MTBF or minimum degradation levels over X number of hours.

They do. It is about 35,000 hours. How you get there just depends:

What is the lifespan of my light?
Our lights have a normal life expectancy of 35,000 hours, about 5-7 years for most customers. There are many factors that can reduce the life expectancy of the light such as the environment (humidity, moisture, salt creep, and temperature) as well as the maintenance of the light. Regular cleaning and maintenance of the light are important and if not performed, it may affect the longevity of the light.

Kessil LED Lights

Kessil designs and manufactures advanced LED lighting products for the horticulture, aquarium and algae industries.Kessil is leading The Spectral Revolution.

www.kessil.com

 

[techdef]

They do. It is about 35,000 hours. How you get there just depends:

What is the lifespan of my light?
Our lights have a normal life expectancy of 35,000 hours, about 5-7 years for most customers. There are many factors that can reduce the life expectancy of the light such as the environment (humidity, moisture, salt creep, and temperature) as well as the maintenance of the light. Regular cleaning and maintenance of the light are important and if not performed, it may affect the longevity of the light.

Kessil LED Lights

Kessil designs and manufactures advanced LED lighting products for the horticulture, aquarium and algae industries.Kessil is leading The Spectral Revolution.

www.kessil.com

Fair enough! Keep up the great work you guys! Beats the hell out of changing MH bulbs ;-)

 

[User1]

Fair enough! Keep up the great work you guys! Beats the hell out of changing MH bulbs ;-)

It does beat changing bulbs - that is for sure. Any bulbs. If you haven't done so already maybe send Kessil and email asking and showing your data. Always has been a question and concern of mine regarding LED's and how much power we apply to them. A few folks go right to 100% intensity on these things when maybe all we need is 70% for example.

In fact I replied to the ap9x review BRS did the other day. After watching it crossed my mind regarding the 60 gallon test towards the end. They recommended both color and intensity at 20% for LPS I think. The next test was with mixed I believe and intensity is now set at 55% for SPS.

To me it seems the ap9x too much light for the tank considering they are running it at less overall intensity. Assuming intensity = power (which I may be wrong). With this in mind would we expect a longer life duration due to running lower intensity? It would have been interesting had they run PAR measurements at those values compared to their full.

Makes me wonder anyway.

 

[Softhammer]

I was an early adopter and have been running full LEDs since 2007 and all LED output declines over time, just much slower than fluorescent or HID. They’re not magical, although the sales folk would have you think otherwise.

 

[Spieg]

LED not only lose intensity over time, the spectral output will also change.

 

[techdef]

LED not only lose intensity over time, the spectral output will also change.

That may be the bigger concern?

 

[techdef]

They do. It is about 35,000 hours. How you get there just depends:

What is the lifespan of my light?
Our lights have a normal life expectancy of 35,000 hours, about 5-7 years for most customers. There are many factors that can reduce the life expectancy of the light such as the environment (humidity, moisture, salt creep, and temperature) as well as the maintenance of the light. Regular cleaning and maintenance of the light are important and if not performed, it may affect the longevity of the light.

Kessil LED Lights

Kessil designs and manufactures advanced LED lighting products for the horticulture, aquarium and algae industries.Kessil is leading The Spectral Revolution.

www.kessil.com

Kessil, thanks again for answering. Follow up question: after that period, what sort of failure mode are we to expect? Going dark, being out of ‘spec’? Color drift?

I guess the real question is: if they’re going to start to lose UV channel or something I can’t see that’s harder to know when to retire a light than if it just Gives up the magic smoke

 

[User1]

Kessil, thanks again for answering. Follow up question: after that period, what sort of failure mode are we to expect? Going dark, being out of ‘spec’? Color drift?

I guess the real question is: if they’re going to start to lose UV channel or something I can’t see that’s harder to know when to retire a light than if it just Gives up the magic smoke

I'm not Kessil . I was just providing you with their information based on their web portal and FAQ. The only reason why I know about it is because I was looking for their documentation on longevity to help calculate cost per day over time. I calculated total cost of lights (number of lights plus cables and hardware) and divided it by the number of days for 4 years and came up with a estimated cost per day. To me it was a no brainer and anything beyond 4 years is a gift.

Why 4 years? Because I'm sure there will be a new light around that time be it from Kessil or another vendor I'm interested in (Philips). Assuming I take care of the lights I do expect to get quality lighting for 4 to 5 years easy.

 

[techdef]

I'm not Kessil . I was just providing you with their information based on their web portal and FAQ. The only reason why I know about it is because I was looking for their documentation on longevity to help calculate cost per day over time. I calculated total cost of lights (number of lights plus cables and hardware) and divided it by the number of days for 4 years and came up with a estimated cost per day. To me it was a no brainer and anything beyond 4 years is a gift.

Why 4 years? Because I'm sure there will be a new light around that time be it from Kessil or another vendor I'm interested in (Philips). Assuming I take care of the lights I do expect to get quality lighting for 4 to 5 years easy.

Oh hah! I guess I should read the name too!
Now I’m in the awkward position of being near that timeline with half my lights since the tank size upgrade. I love these Kessils. Maybe I’ll just get 1 or 3 more used ones as others are upgrading and then change my whole setup in another year or two.

dig those new track mount kessils. They’d look awesome in my house but probably need a ton of them to keep sps

 

[User1]

Oh hah! I guess I should read the name too!
Now I’m in the awkward position of being near that timeline with half my lights since the tank size upgrade. I love these Kessils. Maybe I’ll just get 1 or 3 more used ones as others are upgrading and then change my whole setup in another year or two.

dig those new track mount kessils. They’d look awesome in my house but probably need a ton of them to keep sps

No awkward position really. Personally speaking I only use those numbers for guidelines as I noted. Sort of like I car - if we do the recommended maintenance there is no reason why it will not last 300,000 or more miles . If not, well, it will be half that if we are lucky.

Truth be told I would take a look at your tank. If the tanks looking great, corals are growing, and overall light is good to the eye no need to worry. We as hobbyists are finding out there there is more to the tanks health than just PAR numbers. Similar to previous times when all the rage was 0 nutrients. Now we are finding out nutrients are important and some of the earlier recommended ranges are null and void.

If the tank looks great I honestly wouldn't worry.

 

[techdef]

No awkward position really. Personally speaking I only use those numbers for guidelines as I noted. Sort of like I car - if we do the recommended maintenance there is no reason why it will not last 300,000 or more miles . If not, well, it will be half that if we are lucky.

Truth be told I would take a look at your tank. If the tanks looking great, corals are growing, and overall light is good to the eye no need to worry. We as hobbyists are finding out there there is more to the tanks health than just PAR numbers. Similar to previous times when all the rage was 0 nutrients. Now we are finding out nutrients are important and some of the earlier recommended ranges are null and void.

If the tank looks great I honestly wouldn't worry.

Oh man I’m with ya. No slave to numbers when things are going well. Honestly I’m going to add one more just to even out the coverage. Got a few big shadows that I’d like to even out and that’s that.