Not to start a whole new debate thread but...... I am in Canada and was ready to pull the plug on the apex el, and trident. Anyone use the kh director long term? How reliable is it? I am worried with apex I have to rely i. Their reagents to always be in, plus test on their schedule. Have read that ghl is more rock solid long term. But it seems all review are short term. Which way should I go!?!?
KH director or trident
- Thread starter Bufu11
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If your not interested in Ca and Mg all that much then the KhD is probably the better option as it will be cheaper up front and cheaper to run long term.
If you do decide at a later date you want Ca and Mg you can hopefully get an Ion Director from GHL come February 2021. That will give you Ca, Mg, Nitrate, Sodium and Potassium.
If you do need Ca and Mg right now then the Trident plus an ApexEl for an additional $500 is the only option.
If you do decide at a later date you want Ca and Mg you can hopefully get an Ion Director from GHL come February 2021. That will give you Ca, Mg, Nitrate, Sodium and Potassium.
If you do need Ca and Mg right now then the Trident plus an ApexEl for an additional $500 is the only option.
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Hallowhead
2500 Club Member
I would go apex as it allows you to monitor / test a much larger spectrum of things
I believe in KHD. it is harder to setup KHD than Trident and KHD needs more calibration procedures. BUT that's why KHD is more accurate. Calibration is directly related to accuracy. KHD calibrates most of dosing motors, a sensor, and length of water tubes. Trident's calibration is too simple, and simple calibration does not guarantee accuracy.
Furthermore, Dosing pump parts are expendables. they don't last long. we need to change expendable parts after a year or two. We can easily change KHD's expendable parts, but I am not sure of Trident in this matter.
Furthermore, Dosing pump parts are expendables. they don't last long. we need to change expendable parts after a year or two. We can easily change KHD's expendable parts, but I am not sure of Trident in this matter.
DanyL
Valuable Member
*Note that this is an old thread.
While I own KH Director myself, I strongly disagree with your argument.
First of all, both use different methods to measure Alk with KHD using titration and Trident using a colorimeter.
Second of all, calibration wise imo Trident is slightly better than KHD due to the fact that it eliminates variables such as the length of the sample tube by fixing its size, it's a lot easier to get this wrong with KHD.
Personally I prefer titration for automated Alk monitoring due to the fact that it's easier to DIY your own reagents, though you can also get 3rd party reagents for Trident these days as well.
I think Trident calibration is just adding or subtracting the difference to the test result according to the reference fluid.
That kind of calibration is already in KHD, but it’s just an option in KHD, which is rarely used. kHD’s calibration is mechanical calibration, and I think it’s more fundamental calibration.
Trident is using colorimeter method so Trident motor is not needed to be as precise as KHD motors, that’s true. But it still needs to be somewhat precise. Unlike Hanna checkers, Trident use mechanical system to add water and flush the chamber. So without mechanical calibration, I think Trident is not as accurate as KHD.
srobertb
Well-Known Member
My experience with the Apex/Trident for the last 3 years:
Unit itself- Tests drift as the reagent goes down. So I just replace the reagents at 30%. No big deal. Cones do nothing for me. You can buy a 6 month supply (or a year). It feels like a chain around your ankle at first until you realize how often you were testing previously. It takes about a minute to change.
You can still run a test anytime you want.
It has helped me maintain a healthy SPS reef for 4+ years now with minimal effort. It is not perfect, Alk creeps up if I’m not paying attention since it auto doses and the reading skews as reagents go down, but I don’t have the time to test 1-2 times a day 7 days a week and when you account for user error with manual tests, it’s not any worse than your average hobbyist (that’s me).
The unit died on me and Neptune was helpful in troubleshooting (-including a phone call with a dedicated rep who took 30+ minutes to break down and reassemble the machine. That’s good customer service.
I’ll leave with this: after 10+ years now in this hobby and as a person who has purchased the cheapest equipment, upgraded, then upgraded again, tried every hack, workaround, fad, early tech, etc: This hobby is less about the numbers and more about the stability of those numbers. The Neptune Trident combined with other systems (like dosing pumps) will allow you to obtain the reasonable stability required to successfully maintain your tank and actually enjoy it. As someone who also has a Hydros system, I can tell you that my Apex has 99.9% uptime and I can load the app in Japan (10,000 miles away) and it is quick, responsive, and I can tweak things. I can not say the same for the Hydros.
It is not perfect. It is not the best auto-tester (and the tech is so new we are probably 5+ years away from an actual “good” one). But it will provide long term successful results with minimal effort.
Unit itself- Tests drift as the reagent goes down. So I just replace the reagents at 30%. No big deal. Cones do nothing for me. You can buy a 6 month supply (or a year). It feels like a chain around your ankle at first until you realize how often you were testing previously. It takes about a minute to change.
You can still run a test anytime you want.
It has helped me maintain a healthy SPS reef for 4+ years now with minimal effort. It is not perfect, Alk creeps up if I’m not paying attention since it auto doses and the reading skews as reagents go down, but I don’t have the time to test 1-2 times a day 7 days a week and when you account for user error with manual tests, it’s not any worse than your average hobbyist (that’s me).
The unit died on me and Neptune was helpful in troubleshooting (-including a phone call with a dedicated rep who took 30+ minutes to break down and reassemble the machine. That’s good customer service.
I’ll leave with this: after 10+ years now in this hobby and as a person who has purchased the cheapest equipment, upgraded, then upgraded again, tried every hack, workaround, fad, early tech, etc: This hobby is less about the numbers and more about the stability of those numbers. The Neptune Trident combined with other systems (like dosing pumps) will allow you to obtain the reasonable stability required to successfully maintain your tank and actually enjoy it. As someone who also has a Hydros system, I can tell you that my Apex has 99.9% uptime and I can load the app in Japan (10,000 miles away) and it is quick, responsive, and I can tweak things. I can not say the same for the Hydros.
It is not perfect. It is not the best auto-tester (and the tech is so new we are probably 5+ years away from an actual “good” one). But it will provide long term successful results with minimal effort.
DanyL
Valuable Member
@Yoonsuk Choi Thing is - that kind of calibration is in fact the only calibration needed for Trident, where as KHD require the calibration of 3 dosing pumps which need to be extremely precise as well as to perfectly measure the amount of water in the intake line, and I did not even mention the PH probe that needs to be calibrated once a month.
It is true that the option to calibrate the pumps makes a difference, but you can’t deny that the less variables you have to calibrate and the less resolution they need to be at to get higher precision will most defiantly also lead to less user error. Add the ease of calibrating the colorimeter compared to the PH probe on top of it and Trident will start to look like a more compelling option to the mass.
I can also attest that KHD does loose precision over time as well, and needs servicing much like the trident if not more often.
It is true that the option to calibrate the pumps makes a difference, but you can’t deny that the less variables you have to calibrate and the less resolution they need to be at to get higher precision will most defiantly also lead to less user error. Add the ease of calibrating the colorimeter compared to the PH probe on top of it and Trident will start to look like a more compelling option to the mass.
I can also attest that KHD does loose precision over time as well, and needs servicing much like the trident if not more often.
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