KH Director waste return to sump

[Brew12]

I'm wondering how many people discharge their KH Director waste line back into their system. I know the instructions say not to.
Other than a possible slight increase in apparent alk demand I'm not sure what problems this would cause.

Is anyone doing it? Does someone know a good reason not to other than an abundance of caution? I'm having a hard time seeing any potential issues with my 160g+ water volume sampling 3 times per day.

 

[erk]

What acid is being used for the titration?

 

[road_runner]

I'm wondering how many people discharge their KH Director waste line back into their system. I know the instructions say not to.
Other than a possible slight increase in apparent alk demand I'm not sure what problems this would cause.

Is anyone doing it? Does someone know a good reason not to other than an abundance of caution? I'm having a hard time seeing any potential issues with my 160g+ water volume sampling 3 times per day.

I believe kgd work same concept ad the khg. If the reagent is nothing but specific acidity rodi I do not see what's the harm other than fearing you drop your ph. But on such small quantity with respect to actual system eater volume not sure if it will really make a dint..mine doesn't

 

[WWIII]

I use hcl acid in mine. I assume that's what the kh brand is, but know absolutely nothing about the chemistry/science behind that. I don't put it back in my system though.

 

[road_runner]

I use hcl acid in mine. I assume that's what the kh brand is, but know absolutely nothing about the chemistry/science behind that. I don't put it back in my system though.

Just ask randy Holmes he is the king there

 

[road_runner]

Randy Holmes actually the true inventor of this method of measuring kh..its by far the most stable method in my openion. You should read his original article long time ago about this kh calculation via ph reading.

I love his materials..

 

[WWIII]

Just ask randy Holmes he is the king there

Yes sir! His article is what led me to try and make my own. $2 per liter is pretty darn cheap and lasts me a couple months testing 6x per day. It's worked well so far (4 or 5 months).

With the hydrochloric acid being so diluted, I wouldn't think it would be a problem to return it to the system. I just don't know enough about the chemistry part of it when it comes to that.

 

[road_runner]

Yes sir! His article is what led me to try and make my own. $2 per liter is pretty darn cheap and lasts me a couple months testing 6x per day. It's worked well so far (4 or 5 months).

With the hydrochloric acid being so diluted, I wouldn't think it would be a problem to return it to the system. I just don't know enough about the chemistry part of it when it comes to that.

I asked when I first got the khg. He said it should not be a problem.
You can see his answer on my thread 2 years ago about khg and the impact of alk on coral...

 

[road_runner]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=377303&share_fid=1020&share_type=t

 

[Brew12]

Thanks guys. I assume the reagent is HCl so I can't see any good reason not to feed it back into the sump. I only have a 750ml waste collector right now so I need to empty it more than I would like. Trying to make my setup as simple as possible for when I travel. I like it if my tank sitter only has to feed and fill my ATO reservoir.

 

[road_runner]

Thanks guys. I assume the reagent is HCl so I can't see any good reason not to feed it back into the sump. I only have a 750ml waste collector right now so I need to empty it more than I would like. Trying to make my setup as simple as possible for when I travel. I like it if my tank sitter only has to feed and fill my ATO reservoir.

Honestly I have never done my own. I use khg packaged reagent. That I take back to the tank. That one I did ICP on and know exactly what's in it(pure RODI).
My openion about the home made reagent is not based on experince rather comparisons...I personally do not think it should be a problem but never done it, if I get in to that stage one day, I will do ICP test on a sample first...
I will admit right here, I am conservative and picky when it come to what get in to my system.)

 

[Brew12]

Honestly I have never done my own. I use khg packaged reagent. That I take back to the tank. That one I did ICP on and know exactly what's in it(pure RODI).
My openion about the home made reagent is not based on experince rather comparisons...I personally do not think it should be a problem but never done it, if I get in to that stage one day, I will do ICP test on a sample first...
I will admit right here, I am conservative and picky when it come to what get in to my system.)

I find the convenience of the GHL reagent worth the cost. $100 worth of reagent will last me well over a year doing 3 samples a day.

 

[dragon99]

The GHL reagent is .1N acid. I've swapped for some acid from Amazon with no change in readings. The only concern I'd have with dumping samples into the sump is that the GHL reagent has a dye added making it slightly blue.

I'm running the GHL reagent right now so I'm sending it a waste collection, but if I go back to .1n HCl acid I'd seriously consider sending it back to the sump.

 

[kodo28]

I actually asked Matthias about it some time ago on Facebook group

"Silly question about the GHL Kh reagent. Actually waste water sample is actually discarded. Knowing that another brand are selling their own product for Kh measurment with Ph probe and are proposing their reagent "Reef Safe" meaning that the water sample after measurment is going back to main tank. Could we expect to see such reagent improvement on GHL side ? This would avoid a lot of water to be throw away and one less step for easy maintenance. "

Anwser from Matthias G;
"If other companies have a good feeling to drain water with some acid into the main tank - fine, it's their business. Although the acid is very deluded (much lower than 1%) and will be deluded even more when the sample is pumped back into the tank we don't recommend it. So I am sorry but you will not see such an "improvement" - which is actually only a different way how to handle a potential issue with acid. Don't believe their reagent is "better" than ours, this is also acid - they are just less worried about impacts of thinned acid in a tank."

My only fear on my side is that I am not doing water changes so over time not sure if it will have an impact or not.

 

[road_runner]

I actually asked Matthias about it some time ago on Facebook group

"Silly question about the GHL Kh reagent. Actually waste water sample is actually discarded. Knowing that another brand are selling their own product for Kh measurment with Ph probe and are proposing their reagent "Reef Safe" meaning that the water sample after measurment is going back to main tank. Could we expect to see such reagent improvement on GHL side ? This would avoid a lot of water to be throw away and one less step for easy maintenance. "

Anwser from Matthias G;
"If other companies have a good feeling to drain water with some acid into the main tank - fine, it's their business. Although the acid is very deluded (much lower than 1%) and will be deluded even more when the sample is pumped back into the tank we don't recommend it. So I am sorry but you will not see such an "improvement" - which is actually only a different way how to handle a potential issue with acid. Don't believe their reagent is "better" than ours, this is also acid - they are just less worried about impacts of thinned acid in a tank."

My only fear on my side is that I am not doing water changes so over time not sure if it will have an impact or not.

Kind of confirm what we saying. The impact is PH impact. So if PH of the system is not being significantly impacted it means it's ok. I think GHL culture is conservative and very much data driven company which is what I love about them. They do not say something unless they are 100% sure it's ok. In this case, saying acidity impact is ok is not 100% accurate since you have some reefers who struggle with low PH...that's what's think their reaponce came from..
I run sps dominant system with lots of millies...I have never seen more sensitive coral than millie's. Dumping the waste back to the system did not impact anything on the system ir its ICP results...
But I agree with GHL that at the end of the day its judgment call and what reefer is comfortable with...

 

[kodo28]

whats about the blue color over time ? Are you making water changes and since how long are you putting the waste water back.

 

[road_runner]

whats about the blue color over time ? Are you making water changes and since how long are you putting the waste water back.

Been doing so for 8 months or so.

 

[kodo28]

Been doing so for 8 months or so.

Ok and you didn't notice any blue coloration on tank water ? I do have the waste water actually on a 2.5gal and when full looks pretty blue.
Not doing WC, not sure how the tank would handle this blue tint over time. I can also read on the reagent bottle some kind of long-term stabilisers.

 

[road_runner]

Ok and you didn't notice any blue coloration on tank water ? I do have the waste water actually on a 2.5gal and when full looks pretty blue.
Not doing WC, not sure how the tank would handle this blue tint over time. I can also read on the reagent bottle some kind of long-term stabilisers.

Oh that's not the case in my end. I have crystal clear water. But I also use coral snow which basically bind water impurities and nutrients so skimmer take it it, this also add to my water clarity..
That being said I find it hard to believe this small packet add blue color to the water. Thw packet is diluted in 1.5l then it go to my system over 3 months..its hard to see how can it change the water color..

 

[Crimsonvice]

I use hcl acid in mine. I assume that's what the kh brand is, but know absolutely nothing about the chemistry/science behind that. I don't put it back in my system though.

Is there a post/how to on this somewhere?