KP vs TBS?

[RobB'z Reef]

Hey all,

Getting ready to start curing rock here shortly! Excited for my first tank in a long time. Sadly the rock i was used to is no longer a thing i guess... I'm planning on a 50/50 mix of junk mined dry rock and junk mined aquaculture. So KP or TBS? Any other contenders? I absolutely do not want to use any rocks with that crappy purple/pink paint on them. It looked like i saw paint on the walt stuff, i could be wrong tho. Do either of the fore mentioned agriculturists spray paint their rocks? Thanks all in advance to your thoughts!

 

[Mike N]

I have used KP, TBS, and ARC reef.
I liked the ARC reef rock the best out of all of them, KP Aquatics being the second best IMO.
The TBS rock I got was very very dense, not porous at all.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I have used KP, TBS, and ARC reef.
I liked the ARC reef rock the best out of all of them, KP Aquatics being the second best IMO.
The TBS rock I got was very very dense, not porous at all.

ARC? I'll have to look them up! For you, what differentiated them from the rest of the pack?

 

[Mike N]

ARC reef

https://arcreef.com/product/premium-live-rock/

Looks like they're currently out of stock unfortunately.

Their rock was by far the most porous and interestingly shaped. They were also free of the ugly macros like halimeda that TBS and other gulf rock has.

 

[TriggerFinger]

I’ve bought rock from kp. It’s very light and porous & not painted. I did get 5 colors of coraline, a couple macro algae’s, awesome sponges, tunicates, brittle stars, a pistol shrimp who has never been seen, a pencil urchin, bristleworms and other goodies I’m probably forgetting. I also got a couple aiptasia which were taken out swiftly by peppermint shrimp.
KP rock is overnighted to your home in wet paper towels. I did have quite the ammonia spike so be prepared for a lot of water changes.

I’ll be ordering more liverock for another tank and I’ll be going back to KP. Very pleased with their rock and Phil’s customer service.

 

[andrewey]

What are you looking for in your rock? If it's diversity of organsims, I've been happiest with TBS, although I haven't bought any ARC reef, so I can't comment on that. I didn't mind having to rehome a few of the hitchhikers or the macro algaes- I enjoy finding new animals all the time! If you want more control over what's in your tank, I wouldn't suggest TBS. KP was more predictable in what I got (less diversity of what survived, however still a good amount of hitchhikers).

 

[RobB'z Reef]

ARC reef

https://arcreef.com/product/premium-live-rock/

Looks like they're currently out of stock unfortunately.

Their rock was by far the most porous and interestingly shaped. They were also free of the ugly macros like halimeda that TBS and other gulf rock has.

they look interesting! dang... eta august

 

[RobB'z Reef]

What are you looking for in your rock? If it's diversity of organsims, I've been happiest with TBS, although I haven't bought any ARC reef, so I can't comment on that. I didn't mind having to rehome a few of the hitchhikers or the macro algaes- I enjoy finding new animals all the time! If you want more control over what's in your tank, I wouldn't suggest TBS. KP was more predictable in what I got (less diversity of what survived, however still a good amount of hitchhikers).

boi diversity, mostly in the bacterial spectrum with the best porous variety available (a relative term to today's standards i suppose). The free hitchhikers are fairly irrelevant to me for the most part. Coming from the old days of figi rocks shipped over night I'm used to dealing with that stuff and don't view it negatively like so many others do. Nice to have in some cases, don't really care in most haha. I've always seen the benefits of having that live porous rock with diverse bacteria in my past systems. Oh, and no paint! I don't get that part honestly. For what porosity you might find at the surface level in today's mined rock you just voided the warranty on that by sealing it up with fake corraline (which looks awefule) in the form of non bacteria permeable paint.

 

[Mike N]

they look interesting! dang... eta august

Wow, I had no idea about the hurricane damage until just now. I ordered my rock sometime in 2015, IIRC

 

[Tamberav]

I liked KPA rock... Was nice shapes and I didn't get any macro or bad hitchikers....just lots of emerald type crabs and worms. One pistol shrimp but it was dead in the bag.

The Gulf and TB is too dense for my taste.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

i read a cool article here recently (being new to this forum anyhow) that mentioned testing on all this and I bought into it from an anecdotal experience from my previous efforts. I'm a fan of live rock. Unfortunately the test rock that performed the best at the time (tonga rubble) is even no longer available haha. Getting mighty thin out there.

 

[Tamberav]

boi diversity, mostly in the bacterial spectrum with the best porous variety available (a relative term to today's standards i suppose). The free hitchhikers are fairly irrelevant to me for the most part. Coming from the old days of figi rocks shipped over night I'm used to dealing with that stuff and don't view it negatively like so many others do. Nice to have in some cases, don't really care in most haha. I've always seen the benefits of having that live porous rock with diverse bacteria in my past systems. Oh, and no paint! I don't get that part honestly. For what porosity you might find at the surface level in today's mined rock you just voided the warranty on that by sealing it up with fake corraline (which looks awefule) in the form of non bacteria permeable paint.

Fake paint and then they just buy matrix blocks

Nah never used that stuff either. I am a big fan of live rock and agree it's not like it used to be but KPA should get you as close as you can.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I’ve bought rock from kp. It’s very light and porous & not painted. I did get 5 colors of coraline, a couple macro algae’s, awesome sponges, tunicates, brittle stars, a pistol shrimp who has never been seen, a pencil urchin, bristleworms and other goodies I’m probably forgetting. I also got a couple aiptasia which were taken out swiftly by peppermint shrimp.
KP rock is overnighted to your home in wet paper towels. I did have quite the ammonia spike so be prepared for a lot of water changes.

I’ll be ordering more liverock for another tank and I’ll be going back to KP. Very pleased with their rock and Phil’s customer service.

appreciate you sharing your experience!! I'll be cycling whatever i get mixed in with the dry i have in brute containers for a couple months before my tank gets here so I'm all good with the wait there.

 

[John Genmel]

Liverocknreef.com
Fire primo rock lots of life

 

[nezw0001]

I recently ordered from gulf live rock off of ebay and was totally impressed with communication, shipping, price and quality.

 

[User1]

It is going to be a personal preference but one thing to note is how the product is shipped and that will be different between those you listed. TBS is fully submerged, air freight over night, and you pick up from air terminal. Will get there in less than 24 hours but this has a premium. There is no die off, no cycle. Setup tank, place your order, pick up, toss in tank, and Bob's your Uncle. Your reef is ready be it new or upgrading and merging existing tank. Call and send the 2nd part of the package and repeat. I've never owned the rock but talk to Richard (owner of TBS) via email off and on about diving, Florida, and even men's health. He is a really nice man and loves this hobby. Biggest mistake I made in this hobby is using dry rock - more on this below.

I've read a lot of good things also about KP. I've ordered corals from KP and they arrived fine. Based on my limited experience of their live rock I really can't say other than people love it. It looks nice based on the pictures. More affordable. Shipped differently. So that is it. I've not really read much about the other vendors listed.

Dry rock. Don't use it. Period. It takes a very long time to mature. I used 150 lbs of dry Pukani in my upgrade and will say it had the most negative effect on my existing corals. Dry rock - Pukani in my case - needs a lot of time to mature. Porous rocks, dry, have so many nooks and crannies for life to spread it just takes a lot of time. You can cycle the tank is less than a month but that just means it can process 4 ppm of ammonia to 0 in less than 24 hours. The rocks will take longer to get the biological filter and life in all of it. Literally you can take a nice piece of dry rock that is covered with algae and life, reach in, lift, turn 90 degrees, and see the difference of it looking bare, clean again with nothing on it. It isn't until you can lift a rock, turn it, and have it look the same is it really mature and in my case - just mine - that is 2 years. Go figure.

Also note on hitch hikers. Yes, live rock will have it. Dry won't. But the minute you introduce something into your tank. Regardless of your protocols of isolation. That all goes out the door. You will not win vs. Mother Nature. I know that is one of the dry rock selling points but just ignore that and pass go. Both TBS and KP will have them but that is why you buy them. For the diversity. It is one of, if not, the best reason to pay the premium.

TL;DR - you can't go wrong with TBS or KP. The onus will be on you to decide budget and logistics. Take pics of whatever you use

 

[KJoFan]

KP will ship fully submerged in water, airfreight just like TBS. It's listed right there on the website as an option. I also had it shipped to me this way so I know it is possible.

ETA: I have no experience with TBS but KP just appealed more to me and I am more than happy. I had I think 3 small gorilla crabs in my 40 lbs that I flushed out before going in my display. Plenty of other worms (not bad as far as I can tell), sponges, a little macro, two pistol shrimp which I can hear at least one in the tank but never see it, a small fish of some kind that was DOA....and lots of pink, purple and orange coralline. My rock went directly into the tank it kept it's color.

If you keep it a couple months unlit you'll lose the coralline/color of course.

Totally worth it to start a tank this way, never using dry rock again. I didn't even mix some in for this tank, all live rock.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

It is going to be a personal preference but one thing to note is how the product is shipped and that will be different between those you listed. TBS is fully submerged, air freight over night, and you pick up from air terminal. Will get there in less than 24 hours but this has a premium. There is no die off, no cycle. Setup tank, place your order, pick up, toss in tank, and Bob's your Uncle. Your reef is ready be it new or upgrading and merging existing tank. Call and send the 2nd part of the package and repeat. I've never owned the rock but talk to Richard (owner of TBS) via email off and on about diving, Florida, and even men's health. He is a really nice man and loves this hobby. Biggest mistake I made in this hobby is using dry rock - more on this below.

I've read a lot of good things also about KP. I've ordered corals from KP and they arrived fine. Based on my limited experience of their live rock I really can't say other than people love it. It looks nice based on the pictures. More affordable. Shipped differently. So that is it. I've not really read much about the other vendors listed.

Dry rock. Don't use it. Period. It takes a very long time to mature. I used 150 lbs of dry Pukani in my upgrade and will say it had the most negative effect on my existing corals. Dry rock - Pukani in my case - needs a lot of time to mature. Porous rocks, dry, have so many nooks and crannies for life to spread it just takes a lot of time. You can cycle the tank is less than a month but that just means it can process 4 ppm of ammonia to 0 in less than 24 hours. The rocks will take longer to get the biological filter and life in all of it. Literally you can take a nice piece of dry rock that is covered with algae and life, reach in, lift, turn 90 degrees, and see the difference of it looking bare, clean again with nothing on it. It isn't until you can lift a rock, turn it, and have it look the same is it really mature and in my case - just mine - that is 2 years. Go figure.

Also note on hitch hikers. Yes, live rock will have it. Dry won't. But the minute you introduce something into your tank. Regardless of your protocols of isolation. That all goes out the door. You will not win vs. Mother Nature. I know that is one of the dry rock selling points but just ignore that and pass go. Both TBS and KP will have them but that is why you buy them. For the diversity. It is one of, if not, the best reason to pay the premium.

TL;DR - you can't go wrong with TBS or KP. The onus will be on you to decide budget and logistics. Take pics of whatever you use

Great advice, thank you sincerely.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

KP will ship fully submerged in water, airfreight just like TBS. It's listed right there on the website as an option. I also had it shipped to me this way so I know it is possible.

ETA: I have no experience with TBS but KP just appealed more to me and I am more than happy. I had I think 3 small gorilla crabs in my 40 lbs that I flushed out before going in my display. Plenty of other worms (not bad as far as I can tell), sponges, a little macro, two pistol shrimp which I can hear at least one in the tank but never see it, a small fish of some kind that was DOA....and lots of pink, purple and orange coralline. My rock went directly into the tank it kept it's color.

If you keep it a couple months unlit you'll lose the coralline/color of course.

Totally worth it to start a tank this way, never using dry rock again. I didn't even mix some in for this tank, all live rock.

Awesome... Yeah I'm not sure how I can mitigate the loss of corraline. I thought about grabbing a retro to hang over it at some point. Won't be perfect but maybe better than nothing. The mix strategy is just keeping costs down a bit. I'm hemorrhaging cash with this build lol.

 

[KJoFan]

Awesome... Yeah I'm not sure how I can mitigate the loss of corraline. I thought about grabbing a retro to hang over it at some point. Won't be perfect but maybe better than nothing. The mix strategy is just keeping costs down a bit. I'm hemorrhaging cash with this build lol.

I would think some light would help with the coralline. There will probably be some that lives regardless and hopefully it will come back fairly quickly once you have the tank going.

I wasn't implying you should use all live rock, some is better than none at all. I was setting up a 50g so didn't need a whole lot to complete my build. If it were a larger tank though I'd think twice and surely consider a mix.

Either way, I do recommend the KP rock based on experience.