Lanthanum chloride

skim · Dec 21, 2016

I found this and thought it may be of interest, on how it woks.

skim · Dec 21, 2016

Another one I found. I find it interesting that you and it directly to tank and no dripping into 10 micron shock.

x_burt · Dec 21, 2016

I've used agent green for 3-4 years. It's great stuff

skim · Dec 21, 2016

The thing I find funny, is looking at post on how to use everyone is saying " do not pour direct into Aquarium " use 10 micron sock and then you these 2 companies say just pour it right in as per directions. Now I know it is most likely diluted compared to the pool stuff, but why is everyone so freaked on adding it direct to tank.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2016

skim said:
The thing I find funny, is looking at post on how to use everyone is saying " do not pour direct into Aquarium " use 10 micron sock and then you these 2 companies say just pour it right in as per directions. Now I know it is most likely diluted compared to the pool stuff, but why is everyone so freaked on adding it direct to tank.

Some folks have had issues with lanthanum (which might be from the soluble lanthanum, from the particulates, or just observation error), and if not dosed upstream of a filter, you are not actually removing the precipitated lanthanum phosphate/carbonate. It is just going to settle out somewhere. Might it redissolve later in a lower pH setting (like down in the sand)?

FWIW, aquarium companies often do not understand their own products, sadly.

x_burt · Dec 21, 2016

With agent green once the phosphate molecule bonds with the calcium molecule it will not unbond. It will remain until taken out with mechanical filtration. When you dose with agent green you will see a mist and if you look really close you can sometimes see really small white particles. If it ends up on your sand bed it does no harm.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2016

x_burt said:
With agent green once the phosphate molecule bonds with the calcium molecule it will not unbond. It will remain until taken out with mechanical filtration. When you dose with agent green you will see a mist and if you look really close you can sometimes see really small white particles. If it ends up on your sand bed it does no harm.

I presume you mean lanthanum rather than calcium, but what data do you have to indicate the solubility in low pH seawater?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 21, 2016

I also think that solid material you are seeing is mostly lanthanum carbonate, not lanthanum phosphate.

marke · Dec 21, 2016

If it ends up on your sand bed it does no harm. This is what Burt said above. He is only half right. It does end up on the sand bed. Like other toxic trace metals that slowly accumulate in our system we see no immediate bad reaction so we assume its ok. As Prof Farley said----its about the solubility! At some future point our system could get a drop in ph for some unknown other reason. This will cause the toxic substance, in this case lanthium to be released into our system. Maybe rather quickly. This can be lethal to our fish and corals. The same can happen with copper, zinc, aluminum, and many other toxic metals as they get bound to algae and rock, etc for a future day. The key is to watch what you put in your system! Lanthium can work with the proper use of micron filter socks so as to not allow the Lanthium to settle in the system. As Randy said Most manufacturers do not understand or use what they are selling. I think its user error that should concern manufacturers as used improperly Lanthium can crash a tank.

x_burt · Dec 22, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I presume you mean lanthanum rather than calcium, but what data do you have to indicate the solubility in low pH seawater?

I mean calcium. Why would I have data?

x_burt · Dec 22, 2016

marke said:
If it ends up on your sand bed it does no harm. This is what Burt said above. He is only half right. It does end up on the sand bed. Like other toxic trace metals that slowly accumulate in our system we see no immediate bad reaction so we assume its ok. As Prof Farley said----its about the solubility! At some future point our system could get a drop in ph for some unknown other reason. This will cause the toxic substance, in this case lanthium to be released into our system. Maybe rather quickly. This can be lethal to our fish and corals. The same can happen with copper, zinc, aluminum, and many other toxic metals as they get bound to algae and rock, etc for a future day. The key is to watch what you put in your system! Lanthium can work with the proper use of micron filter socks so as to not allow the Lanthium to settle in the system. As Randy said Most manufacturers do not understand or use what they are selling. I think its user error that should concern manufacturers as used improperly Lanthium can crash a tank.

A random drop in PH in the future would cause lanthanum to be released? Is this what you are saying?

x_burt · Dec 22, 2016

Lanthium, I'm on my phone.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 22, 2016

x_burt said:
I mean calcium. Why would I have data?

Well, first, you made a statement that something would happen. Without data, what is the basis of that claim?

Second, why would adding lanthanum chloride (agent green) cause calcium phosphate to precipitate?
"With agent green once the phosphate molecule bonds with the calcium molecule it will not unbond"