Lanthanum chloride

Emery · Jul 24, 2017

I have about 150 pounds of old rock getting a bleach bath right now. I plan on using a dechlorinator then drying the rock in the sun for a few days.

After that my plan was to give the rock a muriatic bath then start to cure with lanthanum chloride to eliminate phosphates.

After doing some reading there's concern about the precipitate forming on the putter layer of the rock. So my question is, would it be wiser to do the Lanthanum chloride cure before the muriatic acid bath? That way I can strip the rock of excess phosphate, then the acid will eat the outter layer of the rock and whatever precipitate that's on there aswell?

PSLReefer · Jul 24, 2017

The bleach is all that is needed. Why would you do bleach then acid? If anything should have done an acid bath form the beginning and skipped the bleach...

Emery · Jul 24, 2017

From my understanding they do different things. Bleach kills off all life and organics, while acid will reduce some phosphates and copper that are on the top layer of the rock.

Doubbler · Jul 24, 2017

Bleach bath is the best way. No need for additional methods

PSLReefer · Jul 24, 2017

Watch the BRS video. All you need to know is right there

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...s-what-is-the-best-way-to-cure-dry-live-rock/

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 24, 2017

Emery said:
I have about 150 pounds of old rock getting a bleach bath right now. I plan on using a dechlorinator then drying the rock in the sun for a few days.

After that my plan was to give the rock a muriatic bath then start to cure with lanthanum chloride to eliminate phosphates.

After doing some reading there's concern about the precipitate forming on the putter layer of the rock. So my question is, would it be wiser to do the Lanthanum chloride cure before the muriatic acid bath? That way I can strip the rock of excess phosphate, then the acid will eat the outter layer of the rock and whatever precipitate that's on there aswell?

I would not do acid after lanthanum.

The acid will expose more surface, and that new surface may have substantial phosphate. Do the lanthanum last or instead of the acid

Emery · Jul 24, 2017

That video tells me the combo of bleach and acid works best. I have more than enough rock, so losing some during the acid bath doesn't worry me. I do boiler water chemistry at a power plant and handle acid and caustic on a daily basis. I know the risks, and hazards aswell how to neutralize each chemical. So I'm not afraid to handle the chemical either.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 24, 2017

PSLReefer said:
Watch the BRS video. All you need to know is right there

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...s-what-is-the-best-way-to-cure-dry-live-rock/

I'd have to disagree. It doesn't address lanthanum, and IMO, confuses some of the processes and reasons for using both bleach and acid (they say the acid is to remove organics, which is not, IMO, the reason to use it).

Emery · Jul 24, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I'd have to disagree. It doesn't address lanthanum, and IMO, confuses some of the processes and reasons for using both bleach and acid (they say the acid is to remove organics, which is not, IMO, the reason to use it).

Thanks Randy. Can you elaborate a little on the reasons to use both bleach and acid? So I can make up my mind on if I want to go through with the acid step before the LC.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 24, 2017

The intent of acid is to dissolve away the outer edge of the rock, where copper and phosphate may have accumulated. They both bind directly to calcium carbonate surfaces. This is the only way to remove copper, I think, short of putting chelators into the water. Bleach won't, I think, remove phosphate from rock surfaces.

The intent of bleach is to remove organic material, which can degrade to release nutrients and possibly metals that might be in the organic matter. Mostly the concern being addressed is subsequent degradation of the organics. Acid does not lead to a lot of organic breakdown, but as might be expected when the underlying surface is dissolving, some may well float free.

Emery · Jul 24, 2017

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
The intent of acid is to dissolve away the outer edge of the rock, where copper and phosphate may have accumulated. They both bind directly to calcium carbonate surfaces. This is the only way to remove copper, I think, short of putting chelators into the water. Bleach won't, I think, remove phosphate from rock surfaces.

The intent of bleach is to remove organic material, which can degrade to release nutrients and possibly metals that might be in the organic matter. Mostly the concern being addressed is subsequent degradation of the organics. Acid does not lead to a lot of organic breakdown, but as might be expected when the underlying surface is dissolving, some may well float free.

Thanks for clearing that up Randy. That was my understanding between the two methods. Is there, or do you have a preferred order if doing both? Bleach before acid or acid before bleach?