Lanthanum Drip ROUND 2 fight. lol

[xabo]

I have added over 45mL of lanthanum chloride to my 20 gallon tank in the last month. The brand I have been using is Pool Time Phosphate Remover which according to the SDS is 8-10% LaCl. That got phosphates from 0.74 to 0.08 PPM. The rock and sand really hold a large amount of phosphate and I find it takes about 2ish days to reach equilibrium (or close to it).

Did you dilute this and if so at what ratio?

 

[Ghost25]

Did you dilute this and if so at what ratio?

Yes I dilute it. I have been dosing around 1-4mL at a time. I dilute that in about 150mL of RO/DI water and then pour it into the sump fairly quickly (less than 30 seconds).

Within a few seconds the water from the return becomes cloudy. The water clears up in a couple hours. I run a filter pad that I discard after several hours usually.

 

[ddc0715]

still holding at .06..... this is good news

but there always is a con to a pro.. the con to finally (hopefully)getting my phos levels under control, is that I'm now starting to see gha popping up in random places now. i mean why am i getting an outbreak, now? if my phos has finally leveled out?

high phos (1.0-3.0) = no GHA
Aggressive Phos reduction now at (.06-.1) = gha outbreak.

thats not right.

 

[ddc0715]

well he'll. it's back up to .10 this morning.

 

[Ghost25]

well he'll. it's back up to .10 this morning.

Not surprised. Take it easy, it will come down. There is a lot of phosphate bound in the rock and sand, it won't be removed overnight.

 

[shamboo]

still holding at .06..... this is good news

but there always is a con to a pro.. the con to finally (hopefully)getting my phos levels under control, is that I'm now starting to see gha popping up in random places now. i mean why am i getting an outbreak, now? if my phos has finally leveled out?

high phos (1.0-3.0) = no GHA
Aggressive Phos reduction now at (.06-.1) = gha outbreak.

thats not right.

Maybe the gha has the opportunity to grow now due to the absence of the tangs

 

[Doctorgori]

Almost all the problems I see with LC have been when people have been using seaclear or other products not specifically made for being used in a fish tank.
Could there be problems with the quality control of the product that would have no impact on pool chemistry but is deadly in a reef tank? Have also seen a lot of people dose the wrong amounts because of problems with conversions and other math related issues. I dose the blue life LC and found it to be very predictable on how it drops my phosphate and have used it pretty aggressively without any issues. I thought about using the cheaper alternatives but just didn’t trust them enough with them not being made for a reef. Sorry about your fish, always hurts losing animals.

maybe @UWC could offer some insight here

While I would generally agree that anecdotal issues tends to be applied to a particular product or brand, I would argue that the "reef safe" versions are produced by the same plants that supplies all of these products and are thus the same quality.

I would trust a large manufacturer over a small manufacturer all day every day when it comes to consistency.

The idea that a small niche market product is similar in pricing but exponentially higher in quality is very much out of line with modern manufacturing.

I do agree that the math is a stumbling point. This could definitely be better. The discribed process could also be better also. But trying to build the best anything alway seams to leave some people wanting. Everyone and their systems are different.

The products are all the same, just at different dilutions.

as we see what you just stated isn’t all that far from true unfortunately…

I feel really bad that you lost all your fish. That's just horrible. So sorry!

My bet is that there is a stark difference in the chemicals used in this formulation as opposed to those that are specifically formulated for reef tanks.
Albeit, LC is LC, but the concentration and any other chemicals used to stabilize the solution or otherwise are likely significantly different. Call me crazy, but that seems to be the only difference here. My bet is that there is a chemical or something that is materially different in the makeup of SeaKlear as opposed to Phosphat-e or other reef safe phosphate removers. It clearly says, pool use... just pointing out the obvious.
I have used Phosphat-e without issue - into filter sock, into skimmer compartment, and even into return chamber - without any ill effects. I have 6 tangs, including a yellow and gem, and they all don't care, one way or another.
That's not saying "it can't happen to you cause it didn't happen to me", it's just calling out that something has got to be different in what you're putting into the tank as opposed to the others that don't seem to have any issues with LC.

it’s probably some secret proprietary blend of “bacteria” ha ha ha

All good points. Even if all these companies are getting the pure LC from the same place does not mean they handle it the same way during production. Are they mixing it in vats have also been used for other chemicals?
Do they add chemicals to help it work better or last longer? These are just examples and we may never know.

“chemicals”? no they add bacteria, didn’t you know lol

Sorry about the fish.
As you may know, po4 binds to rock and substrate in equilibrium with the water po4 level. If you lower the water po4 concentration, the rocks will give off po4 until the rocks and water are again at equilibrium.
Gfo does the same thing, it will give off po4 I f the water level,po4 is reduced. Which is why you remove gfo prior to running lc.

what! Tell me more please, I’ve been using GFO for years and dosing lanthium as a adjustment. No problems so far but if this is wrong I need to know more (in layman’s terms)
…..anyway, thanks for this info
@Randy Holmes-Farley ( sorry to summon you but have you posted something similar to this somewhere ? ) …again, apologies for the summons

If I was you, I would ditch the LC you are using since it has already shown to be toxic to your tank, no use putting your remaining fish through any more trauma or adding more of something that killed your fish in your water. At least get another source of LC and see what happens then.

interestingly this thread started before the whole Vibrant thing went south; basically all bets are off on aquarium “re-brands” ..no darn telling what chemical they actually slapped some fish label on … I’d at least buy the fish labeled stuff and perhaps later burn the lying frauds later

 

[Pistondog]

@Doctorgori
Post in thread 'How do you GFO?' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-do-you-gfo.884522/post-9778775

 

[csund]

Almost all the problems I see with LC have been when people have been using seaclear or other products not specifically made for being used in a fish tank.
Could there be problems with the quality control of the product that would have no impact on pool chemistry but is deadly in a reef tank? Have also seen a lot of people dose the wrong amounts because of problems with conversions and other math related issues. I dose the blue life LC and found it to be very predictable on how it drops my phosphate and have used it pretty aggressively without any issues. I thought about using the cheaper alternatives but just didn’t trust them enough with them not being made for a reef. Sorry about your fish, always hurts losing animals.

I use the Tropic Marin LC and have had zero issues. I don’t use socks but dose ahead of skimmer. I also don’t do one big dose but rather small manual doses every morning when I wake up.

 

[ReefingInMadrid]

Hi @david campbell, i have been using tropic Marin Elimi-phos rapid for over a year with excellent results. I have 4 tangs in my reef tank, never had an issue with it. I actually dont even use a 10 micron sock filter anymore. I simply dilute the desired ammount in 500ml of rodi water and drip it on the first chamber of the sump. Again, 1 year of use, usually once every week, zero issues.. your problems have to come from the formulation or extra ingredients of the pool grade LC. Get the tropic marin one and be done with it. Its so cheap that it will last you ages.. (i dose 1 ml weekly, the bottle holds 500ml)...

 

[Sean Clark]

Hi @david campbell, i have been using tropic Marin Elimi-phos rapid for over a year with excellent results. I have 4 tangs in my reef tank, never had an issue with it. I actually dont even use a 10 micron sock filter anymore. I simply dilute the desired ammount in 500ml of rodi water and drip it on the first chamber of the sump. Again, 1 year of use, usually once every week, zero issues.. your problems have to come from the formulation or extra ingredients of the pool grade LC. Get the tropic marin one and be done with it. Its so cheap that it will last you ages.. (i dose 1 ml weekly, the bottle holds 500ml)...

I would agree that running LC is generally risk free. I would also agree the LC is LC. Implementation is the larger factor. Anecdotally I have used this same product for almost a decade without issues.