Large Angel deaths and issues, stumped (180 some reef)

[4FordFamily]

Here is everything I know about CP: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/192309-chloroquine-phosphate.html

In the thread, there are links to a couple of articles which has helped some people convince their vet to write a prescription for CP; which can then be filled at a local pharmacy.

My wife is a pharmacist, hmm

Humble fish, my concern is my wrasses. I have 23 total. I do not wish to kill them. Isn't cupramine more effective (or at least as effective) and less dangerous for them? I know it can be used in conjunction with prazi also

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

I've read about this but where do I get my hands on it?

I have my vet write me a prescription for it he's a good guy and understands my uses. Just make sure before you get it filled you contact the pharmacy and they and find it in powder form. Or you can order a kg of it from online for 285 bucks plus shipping. It's the same stuff I'me but I haven't had a use for that much in a while.

 

[sc50964]

Yeah rc sucks lol. I'll look in to those meds thanks much! What chased you off!?

Haha. I know how you feel. RC Mods can be a bit too strict at times. Feels like I am back in junior high getting lectured on what to do and not to do. It's a hobby after all and sometimes just doing everything by the book takes the fun out of it. I pretty much lost all my 180g inhabitants due to a velvet outbreak or brook outbreak. Never again I will put more than 2 clowns in my tank. I did save a couple fish by using cupramine.

 

[4FordFamily]

Haha. I know how you feel. RC Mods can be a bit too strict at times. Feels like I am back in junior high getting lectured on what to do and not to do. It's a hobby after all and sometimes just doing everything by the book takes the fun out of it. I pretty much lost all my 180g inhabitants due to a velvet outbreak or brook outbreak. Never again I will put more than 2 clowns in my tank. I did save a couple fish by using cupramine.

Ouch that hurts!!

 

[4FordFamily]

My magnificent foxface looks better today (eyes still a bit cloudy but he is now eating again and coming out in the open and acting normal again).

Perhaps there's hope for that one at least!

 

[4FordFamily]

Update; everyone else is still alive including the foxface. I did a 32 gallon water change, and sucked out a dead spot in the back that had been there since I moved the tank. Nearly black crap came from there. Sucked every bit of it out. Makes me question the nitrate readings (again perhaps because of the Dinos) with a spot of what is probably pure filth. I got an entire black bucket out of there and when I mixed it up my skimmer has been on hyperdrive. I also moved my power heads to cover the tank better, one solely to break the surface with turbulence, and sucked out more gha and a bit of Dinos (although the algae is winning that competition and starving out the Dinos).

I haven't added any fish of course. Letting things settle. I will do at least one more 32 gal water change and let more time pass before even thinking about adding any Angels. I'll try a yellow belly hippo first and see what happens, to replace my old hippo. I also dropped my temp from 80 to 76

 

[ebushrow]

So here is a suggestion, the next time you get an angel do a fresh water dip for 10 minutes first....check the water....most of mine looked like it was from a snow globe after the dip....treated with prazipro 4 weeks and did another....sill had them coming off, copper helped, but still had them....tried the sentinel like suggested and no flukes....it is my experience with it, but I have never had an angel- large or dwarf that wasn't covered in flukes in some way....not always visible.

 

[4FordFamily]

I've tried Fw sips in the past and the added stress often leads to death. I'm so hesitant to use them :/

4 weeks of prazi? Yikes!

What is sentinel? Thanks for your response.

 

[4FordFamily]

Update:

Since the deaths, I have done a 50, 42, and 35 gallon water change (3 total obviously) and adjusted power heads for optimal surface agitation, params test 0 ammonia nitrate or nitrite.

I also agitated the sand and rocks with power heads and removed lots of gunk and nastiness during the process. Also sucked out some gha

The magnificent foxface still has cloudy eyes but they're improving without treatment, he is eating well and his color is improving.

Today I added a small yellow belly hippo, a small Aussie tusk, a small lawn mower blenny, and a Queen angel is on the way. I will see what happens, but hopefully the problem was diluted, or issues resolved. The residents in the tank seem happier and are showing no signs of distress anymore. I will do weekly 30-40 gallon water fhanges each week.

Gha is decreasing, and dinoflagellates are completely gone. I replaced my gfo and I see no algae growth even on the glass. Skimmer is tuned and skimming hard (rated for 450 gallons) and my scrubber is working. Uv is running, water is moving heavily!

Wish me luck! Will keep you all posted.

Angels will come from divers den where they're pre treated for flukes from here out. Or, qt for a 2-4 weeks (although Angels have very low ammonia and nitrite tolerances this scares me) and treated with prazi with daily water changes. (In my 55 hospital)

 

[4FordFamily]

I also gave some thought to excess nutrients, and my frozen mix drained and drowned in garlic and selcon- I had left it out for even 12-24 hours at a time throughout the week by accident. Surely, the decomposition was an issue and when fish are stressed I would feed More and that would feed the downward spiral. Now it's refrigerated 100% of the time.

I thought of those as I watched what happened to my live blackworms in the fridge even over a few days - lots of decomposition and nastiness. Leaving it out would make this exponentially worse. I feel that contributed as well as I feed several times per day.

 

[4FordFamily]

Update again, the foxface's eyes are about 60-70% better, the new inhabitants are all doing well (Queen angel, small aussie tusk, sleeper goby, lawnmower blenny) I have not seen my baby YB hippo today but I wasn't home for long. She was out last evening and even eating. The Aussie tusk was eating from the first moment he got in the tank. Water/tank looks cleaner, everyone seems more relaxed, hopefully this continues.

I am keeping my eye on this queen angel, she has only been in since this morning but the last few angels have perished within 3-4 days prior to all of this work and flukes treatment..

 

[sc50964]

Are the new inhabitants in the same tank that has the recovering foxface? Those new fishes are prized fishes. Let's see some pictures!

 

[4FordFamily]

Yes they are. Everyone is ok. Day 3 and the angel is hiding a bit but still eating. No obvious signs of distress. Will do another 30-40 gallon water change tomorrow.

Check out the fish show off thread, has most of my pretty fish there! Other inhabitants are good, haven't seen the juvenile yellow belly hippo in a few days but that's not really abnormal. Looked fat and healthy the day I got her and she was out a bit. Juveniles tend to hide in the rocks...

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-discussion/198570-show-off-thread-fish.html

 

[4FordFamily]

Ok this is frustrating. This am the queen was dead. I put her in a blue bucket of fresh water for 25 minutes and afterward didn't really see awhile lot- there were maybe 20 small clear things in there but seems hardly likely that they were what killed her - she had probably been dead a few hours I suspect some of what I saw were scales and other things rather than flukes.

These posts where people report absolute infestations when they do this. Not sure if it was because they had already released or what. The only reason I saw most of the "Particles" was because of the shadow they created.

I rinsed this bucket but I used it for house projects a lot prior.

Still perplexed.

 

[sc50964]

Ok this is frustrating. This am the queen was dead. I put her in a blue bucket of fresh water for 25 minutes and afterward didn't really see awhile lot- there were maybe 20 small clear things in there but seems hardly likely that they were what killed her - she had probably been dead a few hours I suspect some of what I saw were scales and other things rather than flukes.

These posts where people report absolute infestations when they do this. Not sure if it was because they had already released or what. The only reason I saw most of the "Particles" was because of the shadow they created.

I rinsed this bucket but I used it for house projects a lot prior.

Still perplexed.

Was he scratching or hiding more than usual?

 

[4FordFamily]

Was he scratching or hiding more than usual?

Was not scratching at all or shaking head. Over the three days it did progress to hiding more and more until yesterday I only saw her out once.

 

[Humblefish]

I have been seeing lately cases of marine velvet where some fish show obvious physical symptoms, whereas some of their tank mates only display behavioral symptoms or sometimes none at all. In both cases, most of the fish die but a few always survive. The few must have temporary immunity but still capable of infecting others. The ones that die but do not show obvious physical symptoms are probably suffocating to death from fluid build up in the gills, as a result of velvet being present there first before spreading to the skin. At least these are my theories on the matter.

 

[seafansar]

If you think it's flukes (which it sounds like to me), try adding a cleaner shrimp or cleaner wrasse. Prazipro doesn't always work and cleaner wrasses are excellent at ridding fish of flukes. Just ask to see the wrasse eating at the store before buying it. You want to make sure they will accept frozen food first. Good luck!

 

[miyags]

Why would you add new fish to a tank,when you know sometings wrong.It's only been 10 days since you lost all your other fish.

 

[4FordFamily]

I have been seeing lately cases of marine velvet where some fish show obvious physical symptoms, whereas some of their tank mates only display behavioral symptoms or sometimes none at all. In both cases, most of the fish die but a few always survive. The few must have temporary immunity but still capable of infecting others. The ones that die but do not show obvious physical symptoms are probably suffocating to death from fluid build up in the gills, as a result of velvet being present there first before spreading to the skin. At least these are my theories on the matter.

I sure hope so.

If you think it's flukes (which it sounds like to me), try adding a cleaner shrimp or cleaner wrasse. Prazipro doesn't always work and cleaner wrasses are excellent at ridding fish of flukes. Just ask to see the wrasse eating at the store before buying it. You want to make sure they will accept frozen food first. Good luck!

There is a cleaner wrasse in the tank. I treated with prazi and the standard symptoms of flukes just aren't there.

Why would you add new fish to a tank,when you know sometings wrong.It's only been 10 days since you lost all your other fish.

10 days and 120 gallons of water change and prazi dosing, and healthy inhabitants. Did you read anything posted about the thread? Lots changed. I identified all sorts of potential issues and addressed them.