LARGE REMOTE BASEMENT SUMP?

[Devaji]

Hey guys/gals

what to pick your brains about the idea of a large remote sump.

tank info:
RS 650P
will be a mixed reef but more LPS and softies than SPS.
fish will be mostly wrasses with a few tangs and others in the mix

I do have a basement fish room right under the tank. I will have 50-100 gallon tanks for the AWC system and RO.
I can get my hands on a 100-150 gallon rubber maid stock tank for cheap or free. that would almost double the size of my DT water volume.

pros :
increase water volume = more stable
easier to do water changes
easier to plumb in frag tank if i need want
could have a nice "display " macro algae tank connected
more LR can keep the DT negative space
could get one of those nice life reef skimmer I was looking at.
could hide my UV better
more room for a manifold.


cons:
increase daily % of AWC by double
more salt =more $$
more 2 part if/when I start to dose it.
would need a bigger RT pump to get it back up to main level
even tho I almost double my water volume does not mean I can double the amount of fish in the DT.
prob. would need a bigger skimmer big expense.
take up space in my mixing station room.
my 40W UV prob. would now be under sized
easily could turn into a big mess down there if I let it.

so is a large remote sump worth the squeeze??

what other pros and cons I am not thinning of.

 

[Devaji]

added a cpl more pors and cons....I am really unsure if it worth it or not?
thoughts would love to get a good discussion going on the value of a large sump

 

[Vette67]

I think it is worth the effort. I have the 150 gallon Rubbermaid sump as my basement sump. I personally like the extra volume. My display tank is a 180, so this sump is at least half the size of my DT (guessing it is filled to about 100 of the full 150 gallons). I have about an extra 50 pounds or so of live rock in my sump (dry base rock that is definitely live by now). So there is the extra filtration. I use my sump as a dropout box. Detritus settles on the bottom, making it easy to siphon out for water changes.

You can see I run everything external. I have a 3” bulkhead that my rerun pump and skimmer are attached to. I don’t like submersibles, besides not many DC pumps could handle the 15 feet of head pressure to go upstairs.

Anything else you want to know about, feel free to ask. A remote sump is not for everyone, but I definitely approve.

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve never quite worked out the whole volume = stability thing. People say it all the time. I get it for a 3 gallon tank, but once you get past 100 ish gallons .... seems fuzzy logic.

 

[Devaji]

I think it is worth the effort. I have the 150 gallon Rubbermaid sump as my basement sump. I personally like the extra volume. My display tank is a 180, so this sump is at least half the size of my DT (guessing it is filled to about 100 of the full 150 gallons). I have about an extra 50 pounds or so of live rock in my sump (dry base rock that is definitely live by now). So there is the extra filtration. I use my sump as a dropout box. Detritus settles on the bottom, making it easy to siphon out for water changes.

You can see I run everything external. I have a 3” bulkhead that my rerun pump and skimmer are attached to. I don’t like submersibles, besides not many DC pumps could handle the 15 feet of head pressure to go upstairs.

Anything else you want to know about, feel free to ask. A remote sump is not for everyone, but I definitely approve.

is that a life reef skimmer I spy?
what return pump are you using? I was thinking I would need a reef flo hammerhead

 

[Devaji]

I’ve never quite worked out the whole volume = stability thing. People say it all the time. I get it for a 3 gallon tank, but once you get past 100 ish gallons .... seems fuzzy logic.

I often wonder that too. at what point do you get diminishing returns? IDK that is why I am confused. as Ryan would say is the juice worth the squeeze?

the Rs650P comes with a mighty nice sump seems kinda silly to not use it.

 

[JAC-]

If you're not adding fish or any other big bio load to the sump, you probably won't have to increase your water changes. You'll have more of a buffer to the load that is in your DT. Least that's been my experience.

 

[DaddyFish]

...
You can see I run everything external. I have a 3” bulkhead that my rerun pump and skimmer are attached to. I don’t like submersibles, besides not many DC pumps could handle the 15 feet of head pressure to go upstairs.

I have this odd, 3-sided space in my basement garage, roughly 4' x 10'. I've been thinking about setting up a basement sump at the trapped end of that space. The sump would be for two DTs, an existing 90-gal and a 180-210 (something 6-8' long). The return pump system was my first concern and doubt.

Exactly what are you using for a return pump and setup?

 

[Vette67]

is that a life reef skimmer I spy?
what return pump are you using? I was thinking I would need a reef flo hammerhead

No. That is an old school MTC HSA-1000 skimmer from the late 90’s, a Beckett skimmer. My return pump is a PanWorld 150PS. It is probably slightly undersized for my application, but it has been in service for several years and nothing seems to be complaining. I’d probably use a PanWorld 200PS if I ever decide to replace it. Those reeflo’s are nice pumps.

 

[ludnix]

I don't think a larger water volume would mean you are going to need more 2-part solution. The alk and calcium will be provided in the additional salt you'll have to purchase. It's daily consumption is going to be dependent on the coral growth. I think you would just see your alkalinity deplete slower and would just end up spreading your dosage out more evenly. Unless it's a large coraline farm or frag tank down there I don't think it would cause an increase in their usage.

I think you would be creating a larger sink for nutrients or pollutants and creating a larger well of 2-part and other nutrients to draw from.

 

[JoshH]

One huge upside not on your list is you can have your sump on a table at waist height which makes maintenance SOOOO MUCH EASIER. No more bending over under a cabinet to pull your return pump out or skimmer for cleaning, trying to maneuver it between the cabinet and the sump.

Another one as you touched on briefly it makes adding equipment and things like frag tanks incredibly easy as well. No cramped space to work in and attempt to plumb in, easier to keep plumbing and electrical separate and clean looking/organized which also makes maintenance easier.

My sump and fish room that's a work in progress right now...

 

[Devaji]

I don't think a larger water volume would mean you are going to need more 2-part solution. The alk and calcium will be provided in the additional salt you'll have to purchase. It's daily consumption is going to be dependent on the coral growth. I think you would just see your alkalinity deplete slower and would just end up spreading your dosage out more evenly. Unless it's a large coraline farm or frag tank down there I don't think it would cause an increase in their usage.

I think you would be creating a larger sink for nutrients or pollutants and creating a larger well of 2-part and other nutrients to draw from.

that is what I am worried about the sump becoming a nasty mess and doing more hard than good. those rubber maid stock tanks can only be viewed from the top down and I bet there not easy to clean.

I am worried I might be over complicating and often KISS is the best method.

all that said I do have the space right under the tank so....

 

[KWT]

Looks good, some nice workmanship

 

[Devaji]

One huge upside not on your list is you can have your sump on a table at waist height which makes maintenance SOOOO MUCH EASIER. No more bending over under a cabinet to pull your return pump out or skimmer for cleaning, trying to maneuver it between the cabinet and the sump.

Another one as you touched on briefly it makes adding equipment and things like frag tanks incredibly easy as well. No cramped space to work in and attempt to plumb in, easier to keep plumbing and electrical separate and clean looking/organized which also makes maintenance easier.

My sump and fish room that's a work in progress right now...

wow nice fish room

 

[JoshH]

wow nice fish room

Thank you, long way to go with it still but I'm REALLY glad I went this route instead of going under the stand

 

[ca1ore]

No. That is an old school MTC HSA-1000 skimmer from the late 90’s, a Beckett skimmer. My return pump is a PanWorld 150PS. It is probably slightly undersized for my application, but it has been in service for several years and nothing seems to be complaining. I’d probably use a PanWorld 200PS if I ever decide to replace it. Those reeflo’s are nice pumps.

I'm using the PW 150 on my modified HSA-3000 and it works fine. I found the 200 to be too much actually. PW appear to be discontinued, so if you think you're going to want one, get it now LOL.

 

[Devaji]

I am leaning towards NOT having a basement sump. at least that i the thought this am.
it will be a min. of 1K just to add the sump down there. I might be able to get some of that back by saling my old skimmer and the new RS sump but only a few hundred if that.

the good news is I can add it once the tank is up and running by just drilling thought the stand and floor if I wanted to add it later on.

I all ready have a tubing in the wall for ATO & AWC- 2 of the biggest space takers uppers so tank should run just fine with out the added water volume of the remote sump.

thoughts?

 

[Vette67]

As you can see, you’re going to get differing opinions. I am on the side for getting the remote sump. I like the idea of having more room for equipment, and not having to crawl around under my tank to look at or adjust anything. The only thing in my living room is my tank. All support equipment is in my basement. So now my equipment has no size constraints. This also has a benefit of being quieter. All pumps, skimmer, and equipment that makes noise is not in my living room.

In my case, my furnace cold air return is right next to my tank, so I ran the piping through that. I just had to drill through sheet metal, not the stand or flooring, but I would have done that if it was my only option.

I’m not sure why you’re worried about the stock tank being a nasty mess. The only thing I do is siphon detritus off the bottom. My sides are covered with cryptic sponges and feather dusters that I would never dream of cleaning. And since mine is on the floor, I wouldn’t want to crawl down that low to view anything from the side, even if the side was clear. It’s a sump with rock in it. Not much to see that can’t be viewed by standing next to it and looking down into it. But I will say, the idea of putting it on a raised platform is cool. Would make siphoning detritus easier.

I think you won’t regret doing it, if you can swing the cost. I still vote yes!

 

[Breadman03]

PW appear to be discontinued, so if you think you're going to want one, get it now LOL.

I just ordered a spare impeller and a couple o-rings for my Blueline because of that.

 

[Devaji]

As you can see, you’re going to get differing opinions. I am on the side for getting the remote sump. I like the idea of having more room for equipment, and not having to crawl around under my tank to look at or adjust anything. The only thing in my living room is my tank. All support equipment is in my basement. So now my equipment has no size constraints. This also has a benefit of being quieter. All pumps, skimmer, and equipment that makes noise is not in my living room.

In my case, my furnace cold air return is right next to my tank, so I ran the piping through that. I just had to drill through sheet metal, not the stand or flooring, but I would have done that if it was my only option.

I’m not sure why you’re worried about the stock tank being a nasty mess. The only thing I do is siphon detritus off the bottom. My sides are covered with cryptic sponges and feather dusters that I would never dream of cleaning. And since mine is on the floor, I wouldn’t want to crawl down that low to view anything from the side, even if the side was clear. It’s a sump with rock in it. Not much to see that can’t be viewed by standing next to it and looking down into it. But I will say, the idea of putting it on a raised platform is cool. Would make siphoning detritus easier.

I think you won’t regret doing it, if you can swing the cost. I still vote yes!

IDK I keep going back in forth...one hour I have my mind make up the next i question it.
prob. overthinking it. either way I have to maintain it. just want to do it "right" and "best"

the good news it I can easily change it down the road so I am not locked in to any choice, witch feel really nice.

as of now I am thinking of just setting up the tank as is then after its up and running a fully stocked and I get the itch I can add a big sump and display macro tanks and what not to the system.
be alot cheaper that way to as we all know stocking a new tanks get a bit pricey.