Learning instead of gatekeeping: NPS + difficult filter feeders. Let's debate.

[monicalooze]

It's time to rethink outdated NPS and difficult invert attitudes.

I believe there's been increasing interest in NPS tanks and difficult filter feeders, and I would like to hear everyones' opinions about my experience and thoughts:


I started an NPS tank, and I've noticed a serious gap in information. It's really hard to find, and while I know it's a less common type of tank, it would be great if we could start compiling information in one place. In the same spirit, the invert forum is sooooo dated. The sticky articles (from 2009!) are discouraging and "gatekeepy". There are so many new foods and technologies allowing us to successfully keep "expert only" animals!

It's time to be more open and data driven about this. All "expert only" really means is learning how to take care of these animals the right way. It certainly takes commitment, but how different is it, really, to keep SPS? We use dosers, reactors, protein skimmers, refugiums, UV sterilizers, tons of flow, automatic water testers, filter rollers.... and the list goes on...to keep these corals. Advances in technology have allowed us to keep "impossible" corals...

And now, with the advent of different micron-sized foods and probiotic bacteria, I don't see a difference. Sure, you might need a refrigerated doser and novel approaches to filtration, but that's not actually more complicated than many of our tanks. Technology and ingenuity make the impossible possible.

I think prevailing attitudes about difficult specimens are the result of an echo chamber-fueled mythology. Let's learn instead of gate keep; that's the spirit of this hobby after all.

Why wouldn't you want this gorgeous tank??

I'd love to hear thoughts on this topic. Should we start a new forum? Update outdated information? Should we still just stay away? Should we experiment?

Talk amongst yourselves...

 

[blaxsun]

Why wouldn't you want this gorgeous tank??

Is this your gorgeous tank?

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Nicely written. So many reefers have “mixed reefs” not only with corals but also mixed with fish. There’s not a single fish in the beautiful NPS tank above. Can you have both? Or just the one?

 

[monicalooze]

I wish. My build thread shows where mine is. It's relatively new. My thoughts about experimentation are based on the fact that I'm learning it. I was hoping for information and folks to lean on. I couldn't find (m)any!

 

[monicalooze]

Nicely written. So many reefers have “mixed reefs” not only with corals but also mixed with fish. There’s not a single fish in the beautiful NPS tank above. Can you have both? Or just the one?

I am by no means an expert, but I think a higher bioload would help. Perhaps it's because deeper water species need cooler temps? I have my tank running at 74-75. It could be cooler for some of the corals, but I'm about to learn who needs what more.

 

[CoralB]

Really nice tank !!! Makes me want to set up another !!!

 

[monicalooze]

Really nice tank !!! Makes me want to set up another !!!

Thank you! I am enjoying it and I really love how it's coming together. Here's hoping the NPS stuff isn't dead by next week... I have done a lot of research, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'll be successful.

 

[happyhourhero]

I would like to know how effective particulate foods actually are for corals and inverts. Phyto, rotifers, cyclops, oyster feast, reef roids, benereef, reef chili, etc etc.

I feed them because it seems like the right thing to do but I never have just one change going at once to be able to tell which thing is assisting with success or failure.

 

[monicalooze]

I would like to know how effective particulate foods actually are for corals and inverts. Phyto, rotifers, cyclops, oyster feast, reef roids, benereef, reef chili, etc etc.

I feed them because it seems like the right thing to do but I never have just one change going at once to be able to tell which thing is assisting with success or failure.

Lol. I have the same problem. I can't leave well enough alone. Light, flow, food....temp, parameters, salt, additives? Who knows what's what by the time you stop tinkering.

I finally stopped touching my 10g cube; to be honest, I don't even test very often anymore. I keep up with my water changes religiously and don't change my feeding regimen. I don't use any additives. It looks a lot better. I figured out that testing just made me freak out about everything, which actually had the opposite of the desired effect. Too much too fast! Too much chasing numbers...

I'm going to document my entire process with food and dosing on my NPS tank, so perhaps I can try isolating some variables to do proper experiments.

 

[monicalooze]

I would like to know how effective particulate foods actually are for corals and inverts. Phyto, rotifers, cyclops, oyster feast, reef roids, benereef, reef chili, etc etc.

I feed them because it seems like the right thing to do but I never have just one change going at once to be able to tell which thing is assisting with success or failure.

I should also mention that I'm pretty sure it's about particulate size more than anything, but you have to feed many different types of foods in addition to particulate sizes because we don't know what all the animals eat. Bacteria plays into it as well, so I'm going to be testing PNS Probio in addition to all the foods.

 

[monicalooze]

This is my actual tank this morning...

It's certainly a plug for real live rock. I can't believe how clear it remains even when I feed so heavily. This is from the side. 36" from where the picture was taken to the other side. Algae hasn't been an issue even with the white light.

Fingers crossed that it works out...

pray for me lol

 

[Dburr1014]

Think of the money you save on lights so you can have better (refrigerated) dosers.
Both tanks look great!
Back in the 90's, I had a yellow garg. Didn't last long cuz I wasn't into feeding it all the time. With the auto dosers now, I don't think that would be a problem anymore.

 

[monicalooze]

Think of the money you save on lights so you can have better (refrigerated) dosers.
Both tanks look great!
Back in the 90's, I had a yellow garg. Didn't last long cuz I wasn't into feeding it all the time. With the auto dosers now, I don't think that would be a problem anymore.

That's my hope.

 

[las]

I keep my NPS tank at 72 degrees. Also, very low light levels. I agree that there’s so little information out there.

 

[las]

I should also mention that I'm pretty sure it's about particulate size more than anything, but you have to feed many different types of foods in addition to particulate sizes because we don't know what all the animals eat. Bacteria plays into it as well, so I'm going to be testing PNS Probio in addition to all the foods.

I use both PNS probio and yellow sno and they really do help alot.

 

[Andrey Grodno]

I don't understand the discussion exactly, because I don't read English well enough and translate everything through a translator. The problem with keeping non-photosynthetics is that you have to feed them. often and a lot. That means you're putting a lot of biomass into your tank, which then has to be removed. The ideal situation would be if this biomass was formed using substances from your tank, which you are withdrawing.I have a thread about a slow Belarusian scrubber. I have two aquariums that exist solely on it. Everything that grows on this scrubber is food for corals, fish, etc.Unfortunately I can't express my thoughts clearly because of the language barrier. But pay attention to the idea itself. You do not need to introduce food, you need the food itself to grow and absorb substances from your tank. How I hate the inability to write properly in English. )) In November 2021, I bought a dendronephthia. I put it in a tank with a scrubber, slow, of my own design. I was left with one small fragment. But I never once fed the dendronephthia. Not once. It's the hardest nonphotosynthetic and I've never fed it once. And so far a part of it, a very small part, is still alive. I don't know if you can even understand what I'm writing through the translator. We have forums, but there is no one there to discuss these topics at all. Here there is someone to discuss with, but I can't write in English. I even get a little angry about it.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[las]

I don't understand the discussion exactly, because I don't read English well enough and translate everything through a translator. The problem with keeping non-photosynthetics is that you have to feed them. often and a lot. That means you're putting a lot of biomass into your tank, which then has to be removed. The ideal situation would be if this biomass was formed using substances from your tank, which you are withdrawing.I have a thread about a slow Belarusian scrubber. I have two aquariums that exist solely on it. Everything that grows on this scrubber is food for corals, fish, etc.Unfortunately I can't express my thoughts clearly because of the language barrier. But pay attention to the idea itself. You do not need to introduce food, you need the food itself to grow and absorb substances from your tank. How I hate the inability to write properly in English. )) In November 2021, I bought a dendronephthia. I put it in a tank with a scrubber, slow, of my own design. I was left with one small fragment. But I never once fed the dendronephthia. Not once. It's the hardest nonphotosynthetic and I've never fed it once. And so far a part of it, a very small part, is still alive. I don't know if you can even understand what I'm writing through the translator. We have forums, but there is no one there to discuss these topics at all. Here there is someone to discuss with, but I can't write in English. I even get a little angry about it.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

This translator is working well. Your points are very well taken. How will your slow scrubber system produce constant food for the tank if there is no feeding of the tank? I understand your concept and I agree with you. But, wouldn't it be better if you fed the coral once a day and then let the slow scrubber work to provide constant food through algae leachate and zooplanton production?

 

[las]

Or are you relying on the detritus generated from the use of live rock to supply nutrients?

 

[Thales]

Many nps have not done well over time in tanks, yet the are still sold and people still try them without really any type of plan that is different from what has been tried before. When people ask me about these corals I ask what is they plan and why do they think it will work when others haven’t.
There are plenty of nps that are keepable over time, but it seems that folks are drawn to the ones that aren’t.

 

[monicalooze]

Many nps have not done well over time in tanks, yet the are still sold and people still try them without really any type of plan that is different from what has been tried before. When people ask me about these corals I ask what is they plan and why do they think it will work when others haven’t.
There are plenty of nps that are keepable over time, but it seems that folks are drawn to the ones that aren’t.

I think folks are drawn to things that are pretty without a plan. Not necessarily ones that aren't.

I'm not trying to keep a dendronepthya. Haha. But if no one tries, we can't learn. Except trying without a plan isn't cute.